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2023 Trans/T-Case leak with <1000 miles

39K views 521 replies 38 participants last post by  Yawnie'sPapa 
#1 ·
I’m not mechanically versed as much as others here so I thought it best to reach out to the community, before I bring it in to the dealer.

I have taken some pictures from under my JLUR, mainly because I wanted to check for dirt. However, when I did look I realized a very small oil dripping below the vehicle after 24hrs of standing (it must amount to less than 3-5 drops, since oil spreads).

Can you help me figure out what the marked areas in those pictures are? All of those areas don’t feel dry to the time in and have a slight oil film on them. With exception to the last picture which seems to be the source of the dripping from the marked bolt. Is this the transmission leaking? Drive shafts?

Any guidance to help me best steer the dealer service department in the right direction would be helpful!

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#135 ·
Just checked with the "case manager" - the pan has been shipped due to arrive by next Wednesday - I asked for the tracking # so I could follow..... It's coming from Illinois. You would think given the number of Jeeps sold they would sprinkle parts around the country. Also the part was shipped two days after the label was created.
 
#138 ·
Seems like the pan is the problem - curious why so many had the entire transmission replaced. I saw one had a hairline crack.
I remember on our new eco diesel Summit there was a slew of them with bad front chain covers leaking, ours included.
They had to replace the cover and the seal.
 
#161 · (Edited)
Seems like the pan is the problem - curious why so many had the entire transmission replaced. I saw one had a hairline crack.
I remember on our new eco diesel Summit there was a slew of them with bad front chain covers leaking, ours included.
They had to replace the cover and the seal.
Not sure how that would happen as at least in the past, that mounting surface was machined and absolutely flat flat flat. Gaskets are supposed to take up any minor imperfections up to a couple thousandths or so. Even then, to reach the torque on the pan bolts I'd think it would draw the pan to the transmission.
OTOH, there's something going on - ours is leaking again, 2nd time. First time it was a factory assembled transmission, this time it was a dealership pan gasket replacement.
Something is causing both the factory AND the technician's pan installs to fail.

Do these bolts require thread locking compound?
What's the torque spec on them?
I would like to share our story with our Jeep 2022 4xE. right out of the gate, May of 2022 we had transmission leak somewhere. 11 visits later with the dealer for a year +. fast forward to June 28, 2023. the transmission lines have been replace 3 times. the transmission pan & gasket replace 2 times. Today they opened a star case and we are getting a new transmission. they are back ordered due to so many issues but, word is they are trying to recast them better. So if your are going down this path push hard for a star case sooner. I don't know why we had to wait so long for the dealer to do a star case, to me it seems like it should of been done sooner. personally I feel they should of been more on top of things instead of just throwing parts after parts on it. If anyone knows of a way to file a complaint let me know. I'd really like to ding the dealer to less of a star rating if possible or, get JEEP to streamline their process better. hopefully this new Transmission will be a good one.
It isn’t the pan. And even with a new transmission, there have been more cases with leaks even after trans replacement. I think this is rather pointing to some type of manufacturing small marginal error at ZF or any of the other suppliers that is tough to pinpoint and that Jeep will wait out until it rears its ugly end.

Call a lemon attorney
Sound advice but with the amount of these occurring, I understand this comment leaves little hope for owners with the issue. Leave aside that this can be resolved without attorney if you just use the proper language and frequent pressure on FCA.
 
#141 ·
I have a question related directly to the transmission pan leaks on these and it was brought to my mind by reading a comment from a guy who was talking about differential servicing - pulling the cover, inspecting, putting the cover back and re-using the cover bolts -
He said "I thought those bolts were one-time-use bolts".
My response was there are two reasons for a bolt to be flagged "one time use":
1. they are torque to yield, perhaps a connecting rod bolt, some suspension or steering bolts, other engine related bolts
or
2. They are treated with thread locking compound like the pitman arm nut is - it's flagged as one time use and if you replace the steering gear or pitman arm you are to use a new nut.

So, are the transmission pan bolts factory treated with thread locking compound, and, are the techs at dealerships simply wiping them off and using them again?
The problem with "pan bolts" is that they are low torque bolts - you don't over-tighten them for risk of distorting the pan or cover being retained. They can loosen easily. Thinking mostly of the legacy transmissions like the TF 727, 998, 904 and so on - those bolts are set to a pretty low torque and can easily loosen as the gasket sets, shrinks, hardens and so on.

So are the transmission pan bolts on these "one time use" and if so, does that mean there's thread locker on them and re-using them without new thread locker risks them coming loose?
Otherwise, how, and/or why, would these pans be leaking?
There was actually little trouble with the THM 350/400, the TF 727/998/904, the C6/C4 transmissions leaking at the pan as they came from the factory. Most leaks were after the pan was once removed.
(I've done a lot of transmission rebuilds and servicing in the last century - and this one is baffling)
 
#147 ·
New transmission pan came in so we got ours back yesterday.
Recall - inspected - shaft was installed correctly - signed off
Had the first service done -
Transmission leak - They installed a new pan with gasket they also noticed that the quick connect for the transmission cooler was also leaking - they were able to source a new one locally and replaced it. About a 70 mile drive home - no leaks so far. Hope this works....
Also had the rig aligned since it was pulling slightly to the right. Drives perfect now.
Dealer - Hoblit in Woodland CA - was great - loaner was provided - a new Ram.

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#148 ·
We are having similar issues to the others with a mysterious tranny leak that cannot be pinpointed, and every time they think that they have found it, it resurfaces... Our 4xE is a 2022 Rubi built around April of last year and delivered in June. To date, we have had it in service eight times (we just dropped it off again today) for this mysterious leak. We have had the transmission pan gasket replaced at least twice, the coolant lines for the transmission replaced, the orings replaced, and general "ensuring everything is torqued to spec." At this point we are beyond frustrated at having our vehicle out of service for 34 days (including today). We have opened a case with Jeep Wave and our dealer is opening a STAR case. My wife washes her car regularly so we wouldn't notice the drip for a couple weeks at a time. The first time we saw it leaking was in August of 22. It was in the shop every month after that in 22. The last time the leak seemed to disappear (or we didn't see that it was dripping) until May. Since May, it has been in the shop for 25 days.

@JeepCares

Edit: Our service team @ Bender is fantastic and they have exhausted everything they can think of. They have been on top of communication with us and do everything they can to help us out. Mackey, specifically, is the best service manager we have worked with at a dealership.
 
#151 ·
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Jeep Cares
 
#152 ·
Well, it lasted 10 days. It's leaking like a sieve - this is a joke. There is way too many of these leaking.
You can really smell it burning on the exhaust, that's how I noticed - the smell was going into the cabin when sitting at a stop light.
You can see my post above on what was replaced. Waiting for the dealer to call me back.
Has anyone gone more that a couple of weeks without leaks? I've also noticed a slight drive train vibration in the 55 - 62 range. Wonder if this is what is causing the failure?
First the 2022 last year that was bought back and now this 2023. Right in the middle of the summer driving season.

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#155 ·
Dealer said to call the tow service - so I did - $469 to get it from my home to the dealer (68 miles) where we bought it. That service from Jeep appears to cover the first 15 miles.....

I'll have to use my AAA tomorrow.

Remember "Jeep Cares"..... till they don't.

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#171 ·
What a joke. Around here no one lives within 15 miles of a Jeep dealership!20-25 is the closest for many folks. And I'd never take a 4xe to the dealer that's closest. 25 miles is the next one.
I have an advantage - I'd pull it onto my car hauler and take it in myself unless it was sitting along the highway somewhere - then I'd likely just hitch a ride home and grab my JT with trailer and haul it in.
 
#156 ·
Still leaking - Towed to the dealer - all the fluid was spraying onto the exhaust so we had a burning smell in the cabin from the stuff burning off - that can't be good.

Would seem like there is some kind of recall coming given the number of these doing this. Probably should be reported to NHTSA.

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#157 ·
I would like to share our story with our Jeep 2022 4xE. right out of the gate, May of 2022 we had transmission leak somewhere. 11 visits later with the dealer for a year +. fast forward to June 28, 2023. the transmission lines have been replace 3 times. the transmission pan & gasket replace 2 times. Today they opened a star case and we are getting a new transmission. they are back ordered due to so many issues but, word is they are trying to recast them better. So if your are going down this path push hard for a star case sooner. I don't know why we had to wait so long for the dealer to do a star case, to me it seems like it should of been done sooner. personally I feel they should of been more on top of things instead of just throwing parts after parts on it. If anyone knows of a way to file a complaint let me know. I'd really like to ding the dealer to less of a star rating if possible or, get JEEP to streamline their process better. hopefully this new Transmission will be a good one.
 
#158 ·
Curious - why didn't Jeep buy it back? Do you plan on keeping the Jeep?

Also was wondering if anyone has had this fixed once and for all?

One other point, that transmission fluid is flying all over the exhaust then burning off which I would think could cause a fire -then again what do I know.
 
#163 ·
My advice to everybody here who is already on their second repair of the leak: Start blasting FCA and your dealer with pressure so they get you repurchased. Continue fulfilling your requirements Re:Lemon Law in your state but don’t wait until you’re in the green. Start doing your homework now.
Couple milestones I presume everybody will have to have, because I did:
  • A case with Jeep Cares
  • A STAR case opened up through your dealer, connected to above Jeep Cares case
  • A couple attempts by the dealer, with help from Jeep, to fix the issue
  • Frequent pushing of Jeep cares towards repurchase, openly, aggressively and threatening with lawyers. Jeep cares will then start offering you things to prevent repurchase from happening. Typically, they will start by offering an extended warranty, then money plus warranty, then more money plus warranty, then, if car still not fixed and you have successfully refused all offers they will connect you to:
  • A case with the FCA Repurchasing Department
  • At that point, a repurchase is just a matter of process and less of negotiation. However,
  • FCA will still offer you several different attempts of repurchase agreements going from “okay-ish” to “you get all your money back”, so be ready to fight a little more.

At any point when they’re not playing ball, just say you have already got Krohn & Moss on retainer and you’re just waiting for FCA to give you a reason to activate them (a large and commonly used Lemon Law firm that FCA is painfully aware of).
 
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#172 ·
Problem with all of that here - you can't get another i this color. They don't exist. So they'd have to build one for us in reign. My wife will gut and fillet anyone connected with Jeep if we have to go that route.
She will settle for one of two solutions - fix it or get us a new one and paint it. and I'm not joking - she won't settle.
 
#168 ·
I'll fill you in on my buyback of the 2022 Grand Cherokee Overland V6. Its had several issues including the famous whining sound.
After 6 months it was bought back. It was long process. Going direct I ended getting back all monies including accessories / tires not listed on the original contract.
FCA also cancelled the mileage charge which under California law is allotted to the manufacturer.
I also got employee pricing on the 2023 and a 7 year 100K zero deductible Mopar warranty.

Keep in mind - when you start over on a replacement having gone the lemon law route the money you get will not cut it. Why? Inflation. Any new replacement will have gone up in price.

There is another potential issue - If you purchase and received a tax credit / or plan to receive a tax credit how are these tax credits handled?
How about the charging station I had installed - who pays for that.
If I go to say Mach e or something else the charger may not be sufficient.

Fast forward - now here we are with the 2023 Grand Cherokee Overland 4Xe on round 2 of the transmission oil leak. As I posted earlier it was towed to the dealer yesterday.
No word yet.

It is a shame this is happening as this is the vehicle we wanted. I may just keep taking it back.

They have to fix this problem. In the CARB (California Air Resources Board) States the only product FCA is shipping for dealer stock are 4Xe Wranglers and Grand Cherokee 4Xe's. There are no 2 row HEMI's and the V6 in my opinion having had one, is not an option. In CA if you want an ICE model you will have to place an order and wait.

If this is really as big of a problem as it appears to be this could monumental, bigger than the Eco Diesel mess. Wait till they have to issue a stop sale order on all of the 4Xe inventory.
Last point -this stuff sprays on the exhaust - the exhaust burns it off. At what point is this a safety issue?
 
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#180 ·
Just heard on mine - they said it fits the STAR case that everyone else has mentioned. Said they expect the case to be active by Monday.
one other note
Has anyone noticed a slight vibration every now and then while on the freeway going between 55 and 65 in high gear. This could be related. Perhaps causing the failure????
 
#181 ·
Watching this thread unfold makes me even more frustrated than I already am. Mine has been to the dealer 5x for the transmission leak, and I have a parallel intermittent electrical issue causing it to randomly go into limp mode. It's unsafe to drive and I've wasted 3 months of my life on almost daily calls, visits and even attempting to fix the electrical issue myself. Jeep keeps telling me that they will help me out at the end of all of this if I want to continue to be in a Stellantis vehicle. I don't have line of sight to resolution of either issue despite being without my brand new Jeep for over 8 weeks. It's gotten to the point where I just hate the thing don't want anything to do with it. Stellantis treats me like I'm an absolute anomaly and that they are shocked that I need a new transmission despite my dealer telling me they have done a bunch of these. I have almost $10k on accessories on this piece of $#-+ and the only thing Jeep has offered so far is to let me trade it in at a $20k loss and a $3-4k discount on a new one so I don't have to deal with the frustration. I'd trade it in for a Bronco even at that loss, but I can't even do that with a leaking transmission and check engine light. Sorry for the long rant, but I've literally been dealing with this for a year now after the same experience with a new TRX that I finally gave up and traded in for this Jeep. @ Stellantis - get your $#-+ together!
 
#185 ·
We had our Wrangler 4xe for 4 days. Started smelling oil right away, but didn't think much of it until it left oil on the garage floor.. Back to the dealer, replaced trans pan.. still leaking.. got approved for a new transmission as the case is cracked.. I'm just counting to 30, then we'll send it back to Jeep.. no word on when the new transmission will actually arrive..
 
#187 ·
Just a side note - opened a "Jeep Cares" case on 6/28 - have heard zero from them.

They keep screwing around with this situation and someone like Jalopnik will get there hands on this story....

That ZF product is used by other manufactures....

I wonder if the burning fluid is worthy of reporting to NHTSA?

 
#188 ·
ZF product to show this type of issues is very unsual, but it is specifically those electrified ZF transmissions that are struggling. The 4xe isn't the only one with issues (probably statistically still insignificant considering the volume).
 
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