[Gregg]

Hi, All...got a 4xe last week and loving every minute driving it.
This is my fifth plug-in hybrid since buying a Chevy Volt in 2014.
I have a 2014 Siemens charger that has worked all four previous plug in hybrids, but the 4xe is causing the breaker to trip about 45 minutes into the charge.
I am no electrician, but I am guessing the breaker is tripping because the 4xe draws 32 amps and my Siemens charger maxes out at 30 amps.

Just wondering if there is anyway to make things work with this charger...or is it upgrade time?

 

[Grimmjpr]

What is the amp rating of the breaker?
The 30 amp charger should work fine with your 4xe, but the breaker should be 40 amps....

 

[Gregg]

Duh. I meant to include that it's a 30 amp breaker. Can I use a 40 amp breaker if the charger can only draw up to 30 amps?

 

[Grimmjpr]

I'm surprised that a 30 amp charger has a 30 amp breaker....it should be a 40 amp breaker. You can change the breaker to a 40 amp breaker but you need to make sure the wire is the proper guage to handle the amperage.

 

[Gregg]

Thanks!
Going to let a professional do that...but great to now know I don't have to chuck this charger and get a new one.

 

[Grimmjpr]

Thanks!
Going to let a professional do that...but great to now know I don't have to chuck this charger and get a new one.

I'd say a professional is a good idea, but unless there is an issue with the charger it should work fine.

 

[Gregg]

I am pretty sure charger is fine.
Thanks again for your help!

 

[PrettyInPink]

I'm surprised that a 30 amp charger has a 30 amp breaker....it should be a 40 amp breaker. You can change the breaker to a 40 amp breaker but you need to make sure the wire is the proper guage to handle the amperage.

Peak draw is usually 25-50% higher than the steady state draw, I’m surprised it wasn’t tripping before the 4xe. I wonder if something in the charging cycle causes it to increase draw at that time or if it just finally quits after running at 100% the whole time.

 

[Gregg]

Peak draw is usually 25-50% higher than the steady state draw, I’m surprised it wasn’t tripping before the 4xe. I wonder if something in the charging cycle causes it to increase draw at that time or if it just finally quits after running at 100% the whole time.

That's a good question...it seems to pop the breaker at the same time during every charging cycle...I thought it might have to do with time of continuous draw (look at me, trying to sound like an electrician), but yeah, maybe it's something in the 4xe system. So here's a crazy idea...could it be the jump from three flashing blue charging lights on the dash to four lights?

 

[PrettyInPink]

That's a good question...it seems to pop the breaker at the same time during every charging cycle...I thought it might have to do with time of continuous draw (look at me, trying to sound like an electrician), but yeah, maybe it's something in the 4xe system. So here's a crazy idea...could it be the jump from three flashing blue charging lights on the dash to four lights?

Answer found.... its because of the onboard charger in the 4xe being larger than the cable/system. The 4xe is going "oh you're a level 2 charger" and drawing more power/attempting to draw more power than your 30amp charger is rated for. I don't think there is anything you can do to make it work safely. I would recommend investing in a higher ampere level 2 system.Everything You Need To Know About Charging The Jeep Wrangler 4xe

 

[Gregg]

Would upgrading the breaker to 40 amps solve the problem?
It turns out that's what Siemens recommends...not sure why electrician used a 30 amp breaker when they installed it.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[Shaka]

Answer found.... its because of the onboard charger in the 4xe being larger than the cable/system. The 4xe is going "oh you're a level 2 charger" and drawing more power/attempting to draw more power than your 30amp charger is rated for. I don't think there is anything you can do to make it work safely. I would recommend investing in a higher ampere level 2 system.Everything You Need To Know About Charging The Jeep Wrangler 4xe

This is VERY much incorrect. If you are old enough to remember the "old days" of modems you will recall that two modems would connect at the lowest common baud rate. For example if you had a 9600 BPS model calling a 19,200 BPS modem, they would both connect at 9600 BPS, or the max speed of the lower of the two units.

Charging is very much the same way. My wife's Volvo XC40 P8 can draw 48A but can charge just fine at my home charger (40A) or my work charger (32A). She doesn't pop a breaker, the car doesn't ask for more amperage (kW)-- the car communicates. If you take note, the cables (J1772 standard) includes more than just power wires. There are communication wires as well.

Bottom line is that your post, Pink, is incorrect. Any car can connect to ANY charger (J1772) and it should work fine at the MAX amp/kW of the lower of the two units. (48A car can use a 30, 32, 40, 48A charger---just as a 32A car could charge on a 48A wall unit-- they will connect at the max of the lower)

 

[Gregg]

Any car can connect to ANY charger (J1772) and it should work fine at the MAX amp/kW of the lower of the two units. (48A car can use a 30, 32, 40, 48A charger---just as a 32A car could charge on a 48A wall unit-- they will connect at the max of the lower)

First of all, I am old enough to remember that...but I am not sure I WANT to...
So, I guess this gets me back to same question...if my wiring is sufficient for a 40 amp breaker, that should solve the problem?
Thanks again!
Gregg

 

[Shaka]

Would upgrading the breaker to 40 amps solve the problem?
It turns out that's what Siemens recommends...not sure why electrician used a 30 amp breaker when they installed it.
Thanks again for your help.

General rule of thumb is that you should have 15-20% Overhead. That said, there aren't infinite breakers. So for a 30A wall unit you should have 36A breaker -- since that doesnt exist you'd go up to 40A. In the case of your VersiCharge unit, you should have the appropriate gauge wire (consult a professional electrician for what this would be).

So again your 30A max draw EVSE should be running to a breaker box/panel that has a 40A breaker. This is because even though your unit is rated to 30A, there is a permissible 15-20% overhead that could momentarily spike to 36A and then settle back down to 30A approx. So if you're saying the breaker is only 30A, then it is wired incorrectly. It is worth noting, as someone else said, that is it indeed slightly odd that your system hasn't tripped before on prior EV/PHEV plugged in. I have noted the 4XE of mine has spiked to 33A though-- so 1A over "rated" wall -- so this doesnt surprise me (it seems to settle in at 32.6A on my wall unit which is rated 40A max, so I never have any issues, and my 40A wall is 50A breaker, again allowing for 20% overhead)

 

[Shaka]

First of all, I am old enough to remember that...but I am not sure I WANT to...
So, I guess this gets me back to same question...if my wiring is sufficient for a 40 amp breaker, that should solve the problem?
Thanks again!
Gregg

100% correct.... while I'm not electrician, I would assume that the danger of too thin a gauge of wire would risk melting wire, or starting a fire. But assuming that the wires in place are correctly gauged for the length/amperage run--- you "should" hypothetically be able to just swap your breaker to the correct one.

Ex: my work chargers 32A (2x) each are on a 40A breaker .... my home wall (NEMA 14-50) is a 40A max draw with a 50A breaker. Again note the 20% overhead. That is what you should be running on. Just be aware that if you swap from a 30A to 40A breaker (correct) but the wiring is too thin (incorrect) there could be ramifications.

 

[Shaka]

@Gregg -- a quick google search indicates that for a 40A breaker load you should have 8 gauge wire. If you have visual access to the wire running look for "8 AWG" -- if that is printed on the wire, then you should be ok to simply swap out the breaker.

EDIT -- note that lower numbers are actually thicker wire. So 8, 6, 4... would all be fine. But according to MrGoogle here, 10ga wire is only rated for 30A max .. but with all of this said, I am out of my depth. I'd assume since your LOAD is only 30A that 10ga might work? But since your breaker is 40A ... I'd personally assume safer to run 8ga wire.

 

[PrettyInPink]

Would upgrading the breaker to 40 amps solve the problem?
It turns out that's what Siemens recommends...not sure why electrician used a 30 amp breaker when they installed it.
Thanks again for your help.

I just sent you a message on this very topic. My concern would be you are drawing 2 more amperes than your charge is rated for

This is VERY much incorrect. If you are old enough to remember the "old days" of modems you will recall that two modems would connect at the lowest common baud rate. For example if you had a 9600 BPS model calling a 19,200 BPS modem, they would both connect at 9600 BPS, or the max speed of the lower of the two units.

Charging is very much the same way. My wife's Volvo XC40 P8 can draw 48A but can charge just fine at my home charger (40A) or my work charger (32A). She doesn't pop a breaker, the car doesn't ask for more amperage (kW)-- the car communicates. If you take note, the cables (J1772 standard) includes more than just power wires. There are communication wires as well.

Bottom line is that your post, Pink, is incorrect. Any car can connect to ANY charger (J1772) and it should work fine at the MAX amp/kW of the lower of the two units. (48A car can use a 30, 32, 40, 48A charger---just as a 32A car could charge on a 48A wall unit-- they will connect at the max of the lower)

Fair point, so then what you said makes sense. If its pulling at straight 30amp with the peak demand going higher that would be a lot of strain on the 30 amp breaker. I am just leery anytime i have a popping breaker (they pop for a reason usually)

 

[Gregg]

@Shaka Thanks for the very clear explanations. I've seen references in other threads to the 20% overhead, but I didn't fully understand what it meant until now. Going to hire a pro for this...the words "melt" and "fire" are enough to convince me this is not a job for me.

 

[Gregg]

I appreciate all the input and insight. One thing that seems clear is that even if I buy a new charger, the breaker will still need to be upgraded. So I am guessing it makes sense to upgrade the breaker first, and hope all goes well with the existing charger. I don't mind buying a new charger if I need to, but it would be great to be able to keep using the one I have if I can.

 

[Shaka]

@PrettyInPink --- your 4XE will never draw more power than the MAX of the lower. I have seen chargers "in the wild" that are only rated for 24A. Plugging your Jeep into those locations will never exceed 24A. There might be chances it would spike slightly over (10% approx) hence the 20% overhead aforementioned.

Our Jeep Wrangler 4xe has a 32-amp onboard charger and can accept up to 7.7 kW -- but it will never receive that much power, nor ask/draw that much power, unless the communication wires on the wall unit you're using allow for us. A good example of this are the VersiCharge V3 (OP here has an older unit, but the new units are 40A/48A dual compliant). There is an internal dip switch setting that you can choose what you're hookign it up to. During install the owner/installer would be aware they are using a breaker to appropriately configure. Then, subsequently, using the J1772 SAE standard protocols, the car and wall box communicate and the car (in 4XE case) says "32A max" and the wall unit would say "40A max" and then they settle at the lower of the two.

So again--- your 4Xe will never, ever, draw more amps than the wall box can offer, and the wall box will never give you Jeep more amperage than the 4Xe can allow. They will always work right -- but--- in the case of the newer VersiCharge, if someone hooked up a 40A unit but configure dit for 48A internally, and a car with more power draw tried to draw more power, it could pop a breaker, etc. All things do need to be installed correctly here.