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I'm pretty sure the 4 cyl. Turbo is the same I have in my Cherokee.
While it can get up and move, it does have very bad turbo lag.
There are times when you roll to a stop, hit the pedal and for about 2 long seconds, it did nothing. Then it takes off.
Not sure about adding the electric motor since obviously, the Cherokee didn't have it yet.
From what I can tell, on the Cherokee, the air intake open in the engine compartment. It seems it sucks that hot air in which doesn't help on performance, especially in the summer.
Not sure what the wrangler has.
 

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2021 Sahara 4xe
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There is a torque limiter in the Jeep if you are in 2H. Need to use 4H for maximum acceleration according to the folks at Car & Driver.
 
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I don't think you can put it into 4h. There is just that stupid dial. Auto/snow/mud sand, etc..
The 4xe Wrangler needs to be in 4H for maximum acceleration. I don't know about your Cherokee :D
 

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I had a nicely setup S2K, it's about as good of a pure roadster experience as there is, and it still looks great. I think Honda just needs to stuff the Civic Type-R motor in it, update the electronics a touch, put it back on the market. The thing is, it's just such a specific use case of a vehicle: when it's good, it's great, otherwise it's a small 2-seater, noisy, manual only - I drove mine to Orlando Int one time, was super late getting back in from DC, I didn't want to drive home (~2 hours) , I almost just spent the night at the onsite Hyatt :D

But yeah, there's something about the M3P - really any performance EV - that's an insanely fun experience that's nothing like anything else, I mean, I'm at ~7 months with ours, and the acceleration never get old.



Highways are for driving to another city with the family, fun always happens under 60MPH :)

(and I say that as someone whos' owned nasty "highway cars" like a 4th Gen Supra)




* Waits to hear Porsche GT3/GT4, gets Camaro *

:ROFLMAO:
I have many hours driving an s2k. Also had a bunch of big turbo civics I built when I was a 20 something.

honestly s2k was my favorite, until I drove a boxster for the first time last year. I have to its better than the s2k. Literally a 2003 base boxster. Except one fatal flaw with all manual transmission boxsters and caymans. Not many magazines talk about it, but good lord it is such a shame as it almost ruins the car. The gearing is so ridiculously tall. Like all J want to do is rev the thing out and be constantly shifting because balance and motor feel so nice. But you just end up winding out these gears forever. Like a spirited drive on some tight twisty road, you would only be shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear. The s2k was more fun overall because of the shorter gearing. (Well and I’ll take an f20c over any porsche motor except the 4.0) but boxster mid engine was awesome.

as for best handling dynamics, yeah it’s close with camaro vs porsche. I will say there are plenty of porsche trackrats that converted from porsche to camaro. That camaro chassis is amazing. I mean drive a cadi cts, ats, camaro, doesn’t matter. Alpha chassis is hands down the best chassis ever made that isn’t a tube frame race car. Unfortunately the engine sucks for driving enjoyment. It’s like the inverse of the f20c.

Not sure if you’ve ever driven one, but honestly I think the 2nd best motor ever, behind the porsche 4.0, is the coyote. Best way I can describe it is two b18c5’s welded together to form a v8. The motor in The gt350, feels like two f20c’s welded together. I might even rank the voodoo as the greatest motor of all time but it has some reliability issues. Plus I’m sure they are all trumped by the lfa v10. And that might be trumped by the new c8 z06 motor. And they probably all get trumped by v12 ferrari’s that I’ve never driven.

ok rant over

Totally a guess but assume the 3 doesn't launch like it's expensive siblings to encourage those that can to buy bigger (more expensive). Similar to how BMW uses different programming for same engine depending on trim.
No model 3 feels just like the S, same violent launch. Just a little less power. 60-100mph there is no comparison between the 2. Model 3 feels like a v6 accord on the highway, model S still pulls like a hellcat.

The model Y does it’s own thing entirely, it is not like either of them.

model s and 3 both feel like they have full power available at launch. The model y gets it’s power pulled at the launch. I have no idea why. I felt it myself and then researched it to confirm

model 3 feels like a 500hp big block chevy with a restrictive exhaust. Brutal on the launch and the starts losing steam
Model S feels like a 700hp big block chevy with heads/cam, just keeps pulling like a freight train

Model y feels like a 500hp v6 by comparison

Yawn inducing launch and then starts pulling really hard.

if you find and look at acceleration data, the model Y pulls about half as hard as the model 3 for the first 10mph. And then around 15mph they are dead even. Like literally identical acceleration G forces

it was clearly intentional by tesla and I have no idea why. Nobody talks about it either.

that first 10 mph is one of the best things about electric cars, and they stripped it from the Y. I was about to buy a model Y until I felt that.
(Model y is still awesome, and still really fast, but I mostly wanted to buy it because it checked all the boxes and I was expecting it to accelerate like a model 3)
 

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2022 Rubicon 4xe
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On paper the model 3 is slightly more than 50% slower than a performance models S (plaid). I've never driven either so cannot speak to feel but the S is rated at over 1000 HP and the 3 is less than 300 so i would assume they drive, and feel, very different.

I have many hours driving an s2k. Also had a bunch of big turbo civics I built when I was a 20 something.

honestly s2k was my favorite, until I drove a boxster for the first time last year. I have to its better than the s2k. Literally a 2003 base boxster. Except one fatal flaw with all manual transmission boxsters and caymans. Not many magazines talk about it, but good lord it is such a shame as it almost ruins the car. The gearing is so ridiculously tall. Like all J want to do is rev the thing out and be constantly shifting because balance and motor feel so nice. But you just end up winding out these gears forever. Like a spirited drive on some tight twisty road, you would only be shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear. The s2k was more fun overall because of the shorter gearing. (Well and I’ll take an f20c over any porsche motor except the 4.0) but boxster mid engine was awesome.

as for best handling dynamics, yeah it’s close with camaro vs porsche. I will say there are plenty of porsche trackrats that converted from porsche to camaro. That camaro chassis is amazing. I mean drive a cadi cts, ats, camaro, doesn’t matter. Alpha chassis is hands down the best chassis ever made that isn’t a tube frame race car. Unfortunately the engine sucks for driving enjoyment. It’s like the inverse of the f20c.

Not sure if you’ve ever driven one, but honestly I think the 2nd best motor ever, behind the porsche 4.0, is the coyote. Best way I can describe it is two b18c5’s welded together to form a v8. The motor in The gt350, feels like two f20c’s welded together. I might even rank the voodoo as the greatest motor of all time but it has some reliability issues. Plus I’m sure they are all trumped by the lfa v10. And that might be trumped by the new c8 z06 motor. And they probably all get trumped by v12 ferrari’s that I’ve never driven.

ok rant over


No model 3 feels just like the S, same violent launch. Just a little less power. 60-100mph there is no comparison between the 2. Model 3 feels like a v6 accord on the highway, model S still pulls like a hellcat.

The model Y does it’s own thing entirely, it is not like either of them.

model s and 3 both feel like they have full power available at launch. The model y gets it’s power pulled at the launch. I have no idea why. I felt it myself and then researched it to confirm

model 3 feels like a 500hp big block chevy with a restrictive exhaust. Brutal on the launch and the starts losing steam
Model S feels like a 700hp big block chevy with heads/cam, just keeps pulling like a freight train

Model y feels like a 500hp v6 by comparison

Yawn inducing launch and then starts pulling really hard.

if you find and look at acceleration data, the model Y pulls about half as hard as the model 3 for the first 10mph. And then around 15mph they are dead even. Like literally identical acceleration G forces

it was clearly intentional by tesla and I have no idea why. Nobody talks about it either.

that first 10 mph is one of the best things about electric cars, and they stripped it from the Y. I was about to buy a model Y until I felt that.
(Model y is still awesome, and still really fast, but I mostly wanted to buy it because it checked all the boxes and I was expecting it to accelerate like a model 3)
 

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Not sure if you’ve ever driven one, but honestly I think the 2nd best motor ever, behind the porsche 4.0, is the coyote. Best way I can describe it is two b18c5’s welded together to form a v8. The motor in The gt350, feels like two f20c’s welded together. I might even rank the voodoo as the greatest motor of all time but it has some reliability issues. Plus I’m sure they are all trumped by the lfa v10. And that might be trumped by the new c8 z06 motor. And they probably all get trumped by v12 ferrari’s that I’ve never driven.
Yep. I had two back-to-back,

2016 GT Convertible, black / red interior, Perf Pack, 6-speed (only option that year), every other option, full exhaust, 93 tune, suspension upgrades, aftermarket wheels/tires. I was kind of tired of the manual, and we kind of thought there might be more car swapping, so I wanted an A10.

2019 GT Convertible, orange (fury) / black interior, A10, Perf Pack, Magride, active exhaust, every other option. I wound up with some simple mods, but the Gen III Coyote really wakes up with corn, so I was running an E85 tune, and then just a simple H-pipe (nice with the AE, retained full adjustment), and some intake work. Bone stock suspension, the MR is stellar, I had the dealer move the 20" setup from the old car over, had a convertible specific GT350 style rear wing, looked amazing.

I loved the Coyote, especially the Gen III tuned to 7800RPM combined with the A10. I've had multiple V8s (in varying state of tune), a fully built Supra (you may even know my car if you were in the import scene 15-20 years ago), RX7, inline-6s, etc., but the modern Mustang motor is the perfect mix of engine characteristics (way more fun than my Z06).

Last Mustang before the Tesla:

Wheel Tire Sky Land vehicle Vehicle



On paper the model 3 is slightly more than 50% slower than a performance models S (plaid). I've never driven either so cannot speak to feel but the S is rated at over 1000 HP and the 3 is less than 300 so i would assume they drive, and feel, very different.
The TM3P is rated at 450 from the factory, and there's been a number of tests that put then at closer to 470-480 at the wheels (with full charge).
 

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I didn't know there was a performance version of the 3 but the base models is still less than 300hp. I'm not really a Tesla fan... Although i do like Musk.

Yep. I had two back-to-back,

2016 GT Convertible, black / red interior, Perf Pack, 6-speed (only option that year), every other option, full exhaust, 93 tune, suspension upgrades, aftermarket wheels/tires. I was kind of tired of the manual, and we kind of thought there might be more car swapping, so I wanted an A10.

2019 GT Convertible, orange (fury) / black interior, A10, Perf Pack, Magride, active exhaust, every other option. I wound up with some simple mods, but the Gen III Coyote really wakes up with corn, so I was running an E85 tune, and then just a simple H-pipe (nice with the AE, retained full adjustment), and some intake work. Bone stock suspension, the MR is stellar, I had the dealer move the 20" setup from the old car over, had a convertible specific GT350 style rear wing, looked amazing.

I loved the Coyote, especially the Gen III tuned to 7800RPM combined with the A10. I've had multiple V8s (in varying state of tune), a fully built Supra (you may even know my car if you were in the import scene 15-20 years ago), RX7, inline-6s, etc., but the modern Mustang motor is the perfect mix of engine characteristics (way more fun than my Z06).

Last Mustang before the Tesla:

View attachment 4077




The three is rated at 450 from the factory, and there's been a number of tests that put then at closer to 470-480 at the wheels (with full charge).
 

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On paper the model 3 is slightly more than 50% slower than a performance models S (plaid). I've never driven either so cannot speak to feel but the S is rated at over 1000 HP and the 3 is less than 300 so i would assume they drive, and feel, very different.
Oh I wasn’t including the plaid. That’s on it’s own planet. I’ve never driven that. I drove the p100d. Which was tesla’s fastest car in 2018.

the model 3 performance has more like 450hp.
The plaid has to have well north of 1000hp. 5k lb vehicles don’t run low 9’s with 1k hp.
 

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I couldn't remember specs for either the P90 or P100... But the plaid specs i couldn't forget!

Oh I wasn’t including the plaid. That’s on it’s own planet. I’ve never driven that. I drove the p100d. Which was tesla’s fastest car in 2018.

the model 3 performance has more like 450hp.
The plaid has to have well north of 1000hp. 5k lb vehicles don’t run low 9’s with 1k hp.
 

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I didn't know there was a performance version of the 3 but the base models is still less than 300hp.
Yeah, the Model 3 has three variants: a RWD (SR/SR+/"no name"), Long Range AWD (that has an option for acceleration boost), and the AWD Performance that has the most power, a special track mode where you can control things like the AWD bias (RWD Drift Mode Yo!), big red brakes, lower suspension, carbon wing, 20" wheels, stickier tires.

Since I'm being photo-crazy, this is ours doing it's thing at a Supercharger :D

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Sky



The level of performance + $9 to go ~300 miles (home charging, the above was free) is a pretty amazing combination.

I'm not really a Tesla fan... Although i do like Musk.

Brown Bottle Liquid Fluid Drink



:p
 

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I have heard the Y weak launch thing before, actually, and do notice it. To be fair I have not driven a 3, but I can totally tell that power is limited right off the line until 10mph or so, as others said. I have seen speculation that part of the "accel boost" upgrade is removing the weak launch, but I haven't seen confirmation of that.

The bottom line, for me, is that the Y is fast enough for daily use and possibly "real world faster" than many cars when you factor in altitude where I live, not wanting to abuse manual gas cars, and so on. I like it, though my next car will likely be some kind of non-Tesla EV due to some of the UX stuff I don't like.
 

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Yep. I had two back-to-back,

2016 GT Convertible, black / red interior, Perf Pack, 6-speed (only option that year), every other option, full exhaust, 93 tune, suspension upgrades, aftermarket wheels/tires. I was kind of tired of the manual, and we kind of thought there might be more car swapping, so I wanted an A10.

2019 GT Convertible, orange (fury) / black interior, A10, Perf Pack, Magride, active exhaust, every other option. I wound up with some simple mods, but the Gen III Coyote really wakes up with corn, so I was running an E85 tune, and then just a simple H-pipe (nice with the AE, retained full adjustment), and some intake work. Bone stock suspension, the MR is stellar, I had the dealer move the 20" setup from the old car over, had a convertible specific GT350 style rear wing, looked amazing.

I loved the Coyote, especially the Gen III tuned to 7800RPM combined with the A10. I've had multiple V8s (in varying state of tune), a fully built Supra (you may even know my car if you were in the import scene 15-20 years ago), RX7, inline-6s, etc., but the modern Mustang motor is the perfect mix of engine characteristics (way more fun than my Z06).

Last Mustang before the Tesla:

View attachment 4077




The TM3P is rated at 450 from the factory, and there's been a number of tests that put then at closer to 470-480 at the wheels (with full charge).
Nice! Yeah my dream car is a cayman with a coyote swap.
But I suppose a cayman gt4rs would probably be better.

gt4 has super tall gears annoying and it’s costs megabuck to get the trans regearded.

yes I was big into hondas back in the early 2000’s. My fastest one had a gt3576r running motec, I was around 600whp and the car weighed about 2500lbs. Couldn’t lay into throttle until around 100mph lol.

Never even been inside of a supra, want to some day.

Did own an FD rx7 though. Bone stock but I converted it to nonsequential and sold it shortly after. That thing was hilarious fun. It “felt” so fast.

A miss the spool up sound, the blow off valve, and the motors that did absolutely nothing until 4k rpm, my tacky array of auto meter gauges, like you can’t imagine.
 

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Lol... I figured there was a joke coming as i said it. Also, i can't believe it's been out since 2017ish... Seems like i started reading about just a month or so ago...


Yeah, the Model 3 has three variants: a RWD (SR/SR+/"no name"), Long Range AWD (that has an option for acceleration boost), and the AWD Performance that has the most power, a special track mode where you can control things like the AWD bias (RWD Drift Mode Yo!), big red brakes, lower suspension, carbon wing, 20" wheels, stickier tires.

Since I'm being photo-crazy, this is ours doing it's thing at a Supercharger :D


View attachment 4079




View attachment 4078


:p
 

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For me, his naming a company "the boring company" is my mind of silly humor... And then renaming his fundraiser "not a flamethrower" to avoid CA regulation... He's like a real world bond villain with a sense of humor...

Heh, I'm the other way around. I'm not a Musk fan, or really a Tesla fan - but I like my Y despite the UX quirks and think it's a great daily car, maybe the greatest I've had. It's just not for everyone.
 
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