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...Or you can ignore and mock the vast majority of experts and our kids can all roast. Like, when i go to the doctor and they say "you got cancer", I'm like "nah, that's fake news bruh" and go take some Advil....
Totally off-topic.
Science is never "settled" for anything; science should be and is always being questioned, tested and evaluated. It's why we now know the earth is round and our star, the sun, is the center of our solar system instead of earth; the opposite used to be "settled science" for those keeping score. Quite contrary to a "denier", I'm a man of science with an eye on properly interpreting scientific data, not consensus of opinions from professionals or politicians lacking expertise in specific areas for which they opine. I crunch numbers every day as part of my job and am skeptical of how data is reported especially averages or percentages without empirical data.

A college acquaintance is a PhD geophysicist and skeptic of attributing any/all warming caused only by human activity. She's unquestionably an expert and questions the data interpretation. Is she an ignorant "denier" because she's not seeking a grant to continue studying it? Just an aside for those not aware, earth's last 100,000 year ice age cycle began ebbing ~11,000 years ago and we are still recovering from that, so questioning data interpretation for a normal, re-warming period is a valid argument hence my "/s". Follow the money.
 

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Without getting too political i think it's worse than follow the money... A political agenda created the issue and is willing to provide the solution as long as you keep voting for them. But at least they're not fixing the world via Twitter.

Totally off-topic.
Science is never "settled" for anything; science should be and is always being questioned, tested and evaluated. It's why we now know the earth is round and our star, the sun, is the center of our solar system instead of earth; the opposite used to be "settled science" for those keeping score. Quite contrary to a "denier", I'm a man of science with an eye on properly interpreting scientific data, not consensus of opinions from professionals or politicians lacking expertise in specific areas for which they opine. I crunch numbers every day as part of my job and am skeptical of how data is reported especially averages or percentages without empirical data.

A college acquaintance is a PhD geophysicist and skeptic of attributing any/all warming caused only by human activity. She's unquestionably an expert and questions the data interpretation. Is she an ignorant "denier" because she's not seeking a grant to continue studying it? Just an aside for those not aware, earth's last 100,000 year ice age cycle began ebbing ~11,000 years ago and we are still recovering from that, so questioning data interpretation for a normal, re-warming period is a valid argument hence my "/s". Follow the money.
 

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Without getting too political i think it's worse than follow the money... A political agenda created the issue and is willing to provide the solution as long as you keep voting for them. But at least they're not fixing the world via Twitter.
I know you didn't start it, but can't we endeavor to keep all or nearly all politics out of this forum? If an issue is directly related to the 4xe (for example, laws regarding PHEVs, tax credits, etc.) that's fine, but I really don't want to see a debate regarding global warming in a Jeep forum, especially since it's likely to result in nothing good.
 

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It's in the manual. Drive it for 20 mins once it's warmed up, fill it up and/or change the oil. If that's not working for you, the manual is wrong and you might consider pointing that out to the dealership. FWIW I couldn't get out of it in the cold but once it warmed up and the oil was changed it's now out of FORM. How long it stays that way depends. One Canadian reported it turning back on at 97% oil life.
I drive mine for 20 minutes yesterday with oil temp lower than 190 and it came out of FORM when I stopped and restarted the car. But, today was back to FORM. Makes no sense.
 

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YOU may, if you so choose...

I know you didn't start it, but can't we endeavor to keep all or nearly all politics out of this forum? If an issue is directly related to the 4xe (for example, laws regarding PHEVs, tax credits, etc.) that's fine, but I really don't want to see a debate regarding global warming in a Jeep forum, especially since it's likely to result in nothing good.
 

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Totally off-topic.
Science is never "settled" for anything
A 4xE is a plug-in hybrid. These vehicles exist largely because of the effects of their gas guzzling cousins. Totally on-topic. If you deny humans cause global warming, I repeat, I hope you share the same skepticism of vaccination. You might not live long enough to experience the mass death the former will cause but perhaps the latter will teach you something about listening to the vast majority of experts, not just a "friend" who you like the answers from since it makes you feel better.


A political agenda created the issue
There's nothing political about science. If the vast majority of mechanics agreed about something, you'd probably listen. I would too since I'm not a mechanic. When the vast majority of doctors say wear a mask and get vaccinated, that's what I do, since I'm not a doctor and also not stupid. When the vast majority of climate scientists say we're killing the planet and need to stop burning fossil fuels, I listen. Yeah, there is a slim possibility any of the above could be wrong, and that happens, but it's a slim possibility. I'm not willing to risk my car, my life, or all life on the planet, respectively, because I'm so arrogant to think I know better.

"Follow the money" is a refrain for simpletons to invalidate any answers they simply don't like. It proves nothing other than research costs money (as does everything else). I could just as likely point to the influence from oil and car companies on our politicians and you'd dismiss that out of hand because you've already come to your own conclusions for emotional reasons alone. You want to feel good to justify your beliefs and behavior. As a result you repeat tactical conspiracy theories pushed by others. That's where it begins and ends.
 

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nearly all politics out of this forum
Agreed. Climate change is not a political issue, rather a scientific one. All parties should be on board with wanting to cease fossil fuel consumption considering we're all human and it's in everybody's interest to do so.

I drive mine for 20 minutes yesterday with oil temp lower than 190 and it came out of FORM when I stopped and restarted the car. But, today was back to FORM. Makes no sense.
I had the same experience until the recent oil change. I just hit 97% oil life today. So far, so good. I filled up with premium as well this morning. Didn't manage to trigger it. Ambient temperature here is 11C.
 

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A 4xE is a plug-in hybrid. These vehicles exist largely because of the effects of their gas guzzling cousins. Totally on-topic. If you deny humans cause global warming, I repeat, I hope you share the same skepticism of vaccination. You might not live long enough to experience the mass death the former will cause but perhaps the latter will teach you something about listening to the vast majority of experts, not just a "friend" who you like the answers from since it makes you feel better.




There's nothing political about science. If the vast majority of mechanics agreed about something, you'd probably listen. I would too since I'm not a mechanic. When the vast majority of doctors say wear a mask and get vaccinated, that's what I do, since I'm not a doctor and also not stupid. When the vast majority of climate scientists say we're killing the planet and need to stop burning fossil fuels, I listen. Yeah, there is a slim possibility any of the above could be wrong, and that happens, but it's a slim possibility. I'm not willing to risk my car, my life, or all life on the planet, respectively, because I'm so arrogant to think I know better.

"Follow the money" is a refrain for simpletons to invalidate any answers they simply don't like. It proves nothing other than research costs money (as does everything else). I could just as likely point to the influence from oil and car companies on our politicians and you'd dismiss that out of hand because you've already come to your own conclusions for emotional reasons alone. You want to feel good to justify your beliefs and behavior. As a result you repeat tactical conspiracy theories pushed by others. That's where it begins and ends.
Wow, you speak of arrogance while you insult others from your uncontestable point of view.. This is the most arrogant and closed minded statement made. You cast stones of dismissal because it fits your own beliefs also pushed by others as you stated. All while spouting about a collective majority of professionals. Majority...? OK. Funny how main stream media and social media compile your thoughts for you. They thrust some into the limelight while casting others to shadow instead of supplying factual information and engaging in debate.... Majority...? Seems like you are what you attempt to portay others as. 🤔 Must be pretty stressful living so triggered by the challenge of reality. Btw I really love how you Bolden your backhanded insults. You're clever!
 

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uncontestable point of view
No, no. If you read carefully I even acknowledge the possibility that the vast majority of experts could be wrong. I just point out that it's not likely, and the consequences of being wrong are quite high. Risk high. Consequences very bad. Get it? I don't think I know better than experts outside my area of expertise. Those who do I would certainly consider arrogant. I don't think it's arrogant to defer to others who very probably know better.

Majority...?
Yes. As in greater than 90%. And I'm not willing to bet all life on the planet that the remainder is correct. Hence I buy a plug in hybrid. And hence am very pissed off when it doesn't run in Electric 6 days a week. And Stellantis better get used to it since it's a new generation and boomers are dying off.

Btw I really love how you Bolden your backhanded insults.
The conspiracy theory handbook linked in my previous post suggests that ridicule does not work well to convince who you're arguing with but does actually work to convince general audiences.
 

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The majority of doctors believed in blood letting and leeches at one time. Majority doesn't necessarily mean it is right....
 

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The majority of doctors believed in blood letting and leeches at one time. Majority doesn't necessarily mean it is right....
 

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I also live in Michigan and have been stuck in FORM or Emode unavailable for the last 2 weeks. I filled it up with gas after driving 25 miles highway in hybrid mode and still couldnt go all Emode. Sadly, I think the front cover is ugly. I wish I didnt. Any front grill inserts or similar ideas to help this without causing problems? Should I have been in Esave mode?
 

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Lots of strawman arguments and absolute statements in this thread. Typically, these lead nowhere good.

MisAnnThorpe is right about so many things I’m sure, but not about everything. And Firecracker4xe is also right about so many things, but not about everything. And, even to the extent that MissAnnThorpe is right about something, that doesn’t necessarily mean that her solution to the thing is the right solution, right? And even if she is wrong about the thing and Firecracker4xe is right about the thing, that doesn’t mean the Firecracker4xe’s solution is the right solution either, right?

One thing that I’m 100 percent absolutely certain about is that we’re not going to resolve this issue in this thread. So I think we shouldn’t bother trying and we should go back to talking about our Jeep’s.
 

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The majority of doctors believed in blood letting and leeches at one time. Majority doesn't necessarily mean it is right....
The doctors at that time weren't using evidence based medicine. That's actually pretty new. If they had they would have known blood letting didn't work. Now we require studies before medicines or treatments can be used. That's called progress. But hey, if you're in the camp who's ignoring doctors advice in the middle of a pandemic, don't let me stop you. You're just a risk to yourself and everybody around you, who probably think like you. Where I have an issue is where it affects me personally, and being a human being, living on this planet, gas consumption concerns me. People being stuck in FORM mode concerns me if it's as widespread as it seems.

driving 25 miles highway in hybrid mode and still couldnt go all Emode
If I were you, I'd take it to the dealer. Mine was able to get it out by changing the oil. There might actually be fuel in your oil. Does your dipstick smell like oil? How it's getting there may be the root cause for many people but nobody is sure so far.
 

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Didn’t you guys know that leeches are back in vogue in medicine for some issues? Not sure what that has to do with my Jeep, but it’s true.
 

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The doctors at that time weren't using evidence based medicine. That's actually pretty new. If they had they would have known blood letting didn't work. Now we require studies before medicines or treatments can be used. That's called progress. But hey, if you're in the camp who's ignoring doctors advice in the middle of a pandemic, don't let me stop you. You're just a risk to yourself and everybody around you, who probably think like you. Where I have an issue is where it affects me personally, and being a human being, living on this planet, gas consumption concerns me. People being stuck in FORM mode concerns me if it's as widespread as it seems.


If I were you, I'd take it to the dealer. Mine was able to get it out by changing the oil. There might actually be fuel in your oil. Does your dipstick smell like oil? How it's getting there may be the root cause for many people but nobody is sure so far.
Actually I am just not a lemming who believes that the herd gets to decide my fate based off of a very small timeline of information followed by racing to conclusions with small sample sizes. Nor do I take "experts" simply at their word without looking at all sides of the info. I am also not the person who goes on a forum and rails at people nonsensically to do what I say just because I believe one side or the other. Case in point if you were truly concerned about gas consumption you could ride a bike, walk or use public transportation.
The bad part is the whole idea of forums like this is information sharing so that people can gather info and pinpoint the exact conditions that cause the problem in order to solve the problem. You have pretty much derailed that in this thread in your effort to determine everyone's vaccine status and I unfortunately have fallen into the "Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It" so I will simply say good luck to those with this issue and not respond further to detract from the legitimate information gathering.
 

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Actually I am just not a lemming …
The sweet irony here. You say you’re not a lemming and then you try to prove it by regurgitating the arguments of one side or another on this issue. Even the part about claiming to not be a lemming is part of the talking points of one side of this issue.

Guess what? We are all lemmings. Even climate scientists are lemmings. Not only are you (and all of us) highly influenced by what we hear other people saying, we’re also extremely tribal and form our opinions based more on what our tribe thinks than anything else. This is why you can predict with good accuracy a person’s view on one issue if you know their view on another issue.

If you’re the kind of person who goes on and on about not being a lemming with respect to the so-called experts on climate change, we can predict with a good level of accuracy, your views on gun rights/2A, abortion, vaccines, taxes, social spending, what religion your is, where you live, what education level you have, and how much money you make. And, of course, the same is true about the other side — someone very concerned about climate change is also likely to be pro choice, pro vaccine, pro gun control, pro social spending, and is likely to not live in a rural area, doesn’t regularly go to church, etc.

So please understand that I’m not picking on you. We are all lemmings, and it’s foolish and counterproductive to claim otherwise.

PLUS, on the issue of climate change, most people’s views are based more on the “what should we do about” it question than they are based on whether it exists. People who spend their time trying to convince others that climate change isn’t real, don’t really care as much about whether or not it’s real, but do care a lot more about the “stupid” and “unworkable” solutions to climate change proposed by the left. And, of course, the same is true the other way.

Here’s my take if anyone cares: climate change is real and it’s mostly caused by humans. But, the only viable solutions are green technologies that are better and cheaper than existing non-green technology. If the solution is worse or inconvenient or expensive, it’s not going to work, and we should bother trying. However, if we can develop technology that at the same time is both green and better and cheaper and more convenient, we’ll all be happy.

So here’s a crazy example: telling people that we have to address climate change by driving slow, expensive, underperforming cars is a non starter. But, an option for an electric Jeep, that has a gas engine too, and is actually cheaper (after the tax credits) than the other cars i was a looking at, and is cheaper to operate than the other cars I was looking at, and has all the capabilities of a regular Jeep, plus the advantage of me not going to the gas station all that often is a great solution.

So let’s get back to talking about Jeep’s.
 
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