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It's freezing here in Canada, -20 range and when I start the jeep automatically goes into the gas engine. I haven't been able to use electric in almost 2 weeks. I put inside a garage one day and it started in electric, drove all the way home in electric.. I get that if it was a few days sitting it would want to start the gas but it's every fn day! Anybody else seeing this?
 

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Between 25-30f it's hit or miss if it wants to start in electric for us (but when it has started in gas and I let it warm up I can always then switch to electric). Today it was 8F and it wanted to run in all gas until after about 20 mins, then started going into electric while in hybrid.
 

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I'm in Michigan and I have found that if it is below 10F, then the ICE will kick in and the Jeep will only run in Hybrid or E save mode. I have read in other posts, that the 10F number is the key to this...... Luckily, I don't anticipate too many days of temps below 10F.... I have 4700 miles on the Odometer and only 600 of those have been with ICE. I use it for my daily driver and have a 19 mile commute to work, where I have access to free charging- pretty great set up for me. I have found that using the heater will cut into my range by about 30% so I dress warm and only use the heated seats/steering wheel- they impact the KW usage much less than the heater.

On those days when it has been below 10F, the jeep will start off in EV mode out of the garage, but as soon as the jeep's thermostat on the radio drops below 10F, I get the "electric mode unavailable" message and the ICE kicks in..... Once the outside temp gets above 10F, I will push the electric mode button and it will go back into EV mode. There have also been a couple of times where I will get a message saying the EV mode isn't available due to more power need for heating of the vehicle- then I turn off the heater and go back to EV mode. Lastly, Sometimes it will automatically start in ICE mode when it has been sitting outside at work, but as soon as I shift into drive, I can get it back into EV mode by pressing the button again.
 

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live in canada too and you wont see much all electric driving below -15c , above that yes but bellow its all hybrid
 

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Pretty much everybody where it's remotely cold is seeing this. Canada and the northern states right now. I'd imagine New England will start posting soon. The 4xE has issues in the cold. See "Recommended Reading" below for many other threads on the topic. Stellantis seeems to be completely ignoring the issue. My recommendation is to bug your respective legislators and/or regulatory agencies until a response is forced since @JeepCares sure isn't addressing this.
 

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Happened to me at just below freezing. Stellantis won't say what the exact conditions are to trigger FORM but it may be some combination of oil life, temperature, and when you last filled up. There may or may not be some sort of oil quality sensor. Nobody, including my dealership, seems to know.
 

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Are we talking about the electronic unavailable fuel and oil refresh message? I have gotten this in 45 degree weather in mild Denver. Since December I have probably been able to drive in electric mode about 25% of the time.
 

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Are we talking about the electronic unavailable fuel and oil refresh message?
While in FORM, electric isn't available, but there's also a separate electric not available mode when the battery is too cold, hvac demand is too high, etc
 

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While in FORM, electric isn't available, but there's also a separate electric not available mode when the battery is too cold, hvac demand is too high, etc
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I have never seen the electric not available on its own when its under 10 degree weather because its always in freaking FORM mode. And it takes forever for it to reset.
 

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I see this here in Colorado on my 4xE. Yup, <10F seems to mean no electric mode, and the engine just runs all the time, even when stopped and fully warm. I'd love to know the engineering reason why - it seems like it really is based of exterior temp, not battery temp, oil temp or anything else logical.

I'm not too bothered by it, just surprised given how odd the behavior is with a hard cutoff at a magic temperature.
 

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@Nathan this is what Dan Fry posted on facebook


Cold Weather Operation of the Wrangler 4xe

Remote start and regular button start will both work, with an EVSE plugged in. That’s a great way to warm the battery and the cabin using energy from the wall. The Jeep will not shift out of Park until you remove the charge handle, to prevent accidentally driving off while plugged in. The plug icon in the cluster gives you a heads up.

You might see Fuel/Oil Refresh more frequently in cold weather. That’s because short engine runtimes in cold temperatures are most conducive to fuel dilution into the engine oil. If this happens, the solution is to get the engine warm and keep it running for up to an hour and a half to evaporate the fuel out of the oil… or change the engine oil.

Here’s what to expect as mornings get colder. All of this logic is true, whether an EVSE is plugged in or not:

Above ~32°F, and with sufficient battery and fuel, the vehicle will usually power up silently (ICE not running). The exception is if you have a very high HVAC demand.

Below 32°F but above 10°F, the ICE engine will also run at startup. You can select Electric mode to shut it off, relying instead on the electric heaters. There will be a range penalty. If you use remote start in a cold garage, take note exhaust will be emitted.

Below 10°F, the engine will always run until various systems are up to operating temperature. Electric mode will be unavailable during warmup. At these temperatures, the electric heater really isn’t an efficient way to heat the cabin, and your EV range would be greatly reduced by that anyway. The same is true of BEV’s, but they don’t have an ICE to help.

If it’s below ~5°F outside when you shut down, the instrument cluster will advise you to plug in an EVSE to maintain battery temperature. This is only strictly necessary in case the battery temp falls below -20°F overnight. Level 1 or Level 2 are suitable.

All the way down to -20°F, the Jeep can start unassisted (without an EVSE connected). This is the same capability as other Wranglers and most ICE vehicles.

If outside temperature is likely to fall below -20°F, you definitely want to connect an EVSE overnight. The Jeep will wake up periodically and warm and circulate coolant to facilitate a restart. It’s not necessary to also connect a block heater.

With an EVSE connected, the Jeep can start as low as -40°F. This is the same performance a other Wranglers and the best production ICE vehicles - they require block heaters in these temperatures.

Happy Snow-Jeeping! 🙂
 

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That is incredibly informative! Sounds like if I drive around long enough in single-digit temps it might eventually allow electric mode, at least. In Colorado this is no big deal, single digits are rare - but I can see why our northern neighbors might be stuck with the engine running for weeks.

Wow, 1:30 to get out of FORM too, glad I haven't seen that yet...
 

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@Nathan Yeah, we are expecting single digit temps here this week. -10* or so with the wind chill. We usually get 1 or 2 weeks a year at this level, doesn't bother me at all to use ICE in this scenario. I understand what I bought and what I didn't buy when I made this purchase decision.
 

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Our 4xe started doing this yesterday. Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode. 45F
Then again later in the morning at 51F, again last night at 65F so I took it for a drive. About 30 min on the highway.

This morning at 60F, same thing. No Electric available.

Also, our Jeep does not draw power from the EVSE when remote started. It uses the HVB instead. I can tell because my EVSE has an app that shows the energy transfer and none is transferred during a remote start. :(
 

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@SnB4xe FORM is normal behavior if there is too much gas in the oil, which is likely the cause your experience. I know the manual says 20 minutes but they upped it to 2.5 hours for the Grand Cherokee 4xe so my guess is they were overly conservative with the Wrangler 4xe. Be curious to see if they update the manual. Shakes also has some really good suggests that I believe involve driving it for 20-30 minutes and then letting it idle for a period of time.
 

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@Mllcb42 Interesting indeed. Hopefully that is more accurate. People won't like it still I'm sure but it at least it is a more accurate real world experience.
 
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