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And they blow the engines up all the time.



Unless, of course, by feeding it false temperature data, you're causing it to put load on the battery pack in a way it isn't designed to do... like not properly conditioned because it thinks it is warmer.



I'm all for modifying cars and getting them to behave how you want, but I wouldn't blindly do it without first understanding how and why the vehicle operates the way it does first.
I won't "load" the battery pack, it will send as much kW as it can to the heating system, and I'll live with it (by the way, today at -10C in pure EV mode, it was toasty warm with the HVAC set at 18C, AND I had "legal" EV mode... so I guess it won't be that bad at -15C or even -20C for my needs).

Some tuners blow their cars trying silly things or pushing the hardware too far. But some tuners gain considerable knowledge about how their car work, and what they can do. They even treat their cars better than the vast majority of non-car enthusiasts. Let's see how I'll fare with this 😉
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
But if I understand correctly, short drives using ICE contribute to the problem, and only long extended drives using ICE (or oil change) will solve it. I'd rather use electric-only mode for short drives. And I have no intention of freezing inside the jeep so I'd prefer to warm up the jeep first using the remote start and running the engine. And by the way, this is sensible because if I do need the engine while on a short electric drive, it's already warm.

Seems to me there is a solution to this that can come from Jeep. I had an oil change a week ago and I'm back in perpetual refresh mode. Having this message already after a week and on a daily basis is a great way to annoy customers, especially when nothing indicates how far along your "refresh" is going. Like a download that has no indicator of where the progress is.

So we have engineered babysitter that keeps denying our commands and also an endless warning message that says our gas and oil needs help. Even a few days after your latest oil change. And all the while you are told "hey, you bought it and you can only blame yourself at this point"
Thought I would chime in at this point and clarify the issue from our Canadian stand point.
1. Canada is cold for the most part from November to March. Electric mode will be perpetually stuck in FORM as my dealer is just discovering!!
2. You can satisfy all the FORM requirements you want and it will come back within a couple days or even as soon as it hits the cold from your warm garage.
3. Is this a problem…well only if you think you bought a vehicle that will be able to run electric mode in the winter. It won’t period, hands down, no bweno!!! Lol That’s why Jeep is saying it’s running as it’s supposed to. They are just being polite and not saying in plain terms, “Ok Canada yes the Jeep won’t run electric in -35” lol
4. Think of it this way, you are driving -35 in electric mode, your running around town and suddenly the battery is running out, it needs to switch to ice. Now what, -35 and cold start while in motion!!! My mechanic would wake up crying!!! Lol.
5. All this great info people are giving on how to get out of FORM means absolutely nothing as nobody has had a 4xe in the winter yet, or am I wrong?!?!? I live in a place where we will see the odd -45+, my 2018 Jeep rubicon had no issues with it. Unfortunately this one will if I try to push it into electric mode.
Cheers
 

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i have gotten the FORM a few times now in the cold and it clears after driving on hybrid. The next start im able to use electric only. What i have noticed is that even though im in FORM, it is still hybrid and using the battery as well, its not completely ICE. It just doesnt let me use pure electric. My gas mileage has not suffered much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
i have gotten the FORM a few times now in the cold and it clears after driving on hybrid. The next start im able to use electric only. What i have noticed is that even though im in FORM, it is still hybrid and using the battery as well, its not completely ICE. It just doesnt let me use pure electric. My gas mileage has not suffered much.
I think it really depends on where you live and what the outside temperature is. When it was -17 I was in gas engine use only. Started at 98% battery when I left the house and two hours later at 96% battery. That tells me no hybrid mode. But I understand now a little better on how it will have to be used. In my case anything in the minuses will result in me using gas engine only. Cheers and good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
I think it really depends on where you live and what the outside temperature is. When it was -17 I was in gas engine use only. Started at 98% battery when I left the house and two hours later at 96% battery. That tells me no hybrid mode. But I understand now a little better on how it will have to be used. In my case anything in the minuses will result in me using gas engine only. Cheers and good luck
I’m going to start a new thread for the final update and my final words on the matter.
FORM failure final update.
 

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I also have a Volvo XC90 PHEV....I frequent the SwedeSpeed forums and I just never see anyone complaining that they can't run what Volvo calls "Pure" mode in the winter, similar to the 4xe's electric mode...electric only unless you really floor it, get above roughly 75ish mph or battery runs out. There must be Volvo T8s in Canada and i'm most certain there are some in Sweden where it can get quite cold. I guess the question I have is...is Jeep just being super conservative? is there a design flaw? or are Volvo's going to shit the bed in 5 years from gallons of gas in it's oil...? Somehow I don't think it's the third option....
 

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I also have a Volvo XC90 PHEV....I frequent the SwedeSpeed forums and I just never see anyone complaining that they can't run what Volvo calls "Pure" mode in the winter, similar to the 4xe's electric mode...electric only unless you really floor it, get above roughly 75ish mph or battery runs out. There must be Volvo T8s in Canada and i'm most certain there are some in Sweden where it can get quite cold. I guess the question I have is...is Jeep just being super conservative? is there a design flaw? or are Volvo's going to shit the bed in 5 years from gallons of gas in it's oil...? Somehow I don't think it's the third option....


The solution given by Volvo engineering to the problem:
The recommendation from the workshop was correct to drive the engine more for longer times on petrol to get hot engine oil and if the oil he is using has the same spec. it will let the fuel vapor out via the crankcase ventilation system. If he drive only very short distances, the dilution will be more due to the cold start strategy to preheat the catalyst as soon as possible to reach correct emissions.
 

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Lol well there it is. I wonder what will happen to all the cold-weather short trip people over time. I guess the question is...how often do you really need to burn it off? Jeep has erred on the it's so cold, you can never use electric. Apparently my Volvo uses the other approach...meh...you'll get around to burning it off eventually.
 

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Apparently my Volvo uses the other approach...meh...you'll get around to burning it off eventually
This is the approach that a lot of older phevs have used... that then have issues with oil dilution. Jeep may implement the approach they are taking because they have learned from what has come before.
 

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This is the approach that a lot of older phevs have used... that then have issues with oil dilution. Jeep may implement the approach they are taking because they have learned from what has come before.
I will say I'm glad mine is in California with a planned second life in Hawaii :D

If you run hybrid instead of pure electric, is the battery at least contributing enough to provide better mpg than having bought a Jeep with the 2.0L engine?
 

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Is there a possibility that jeep could release some kind of software update that would limite how much the cooling react depend on temperature? Is that even possible? Is any official word from jeep on the issue? Could this just be an issue with the algorithms or a sensor not happy with the cold? Possible fix with software fix?
 

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Is there a possibility that jeep could release some kind of software update that would limite how much the cooling react depend on temperature? Is that even possible? Is any official word from jeep on the issue? Could this just be an issue with the algorithms or a sensor not happy with the cold? Possible fix with software fix?
Define fix.

If we are talking about changing cooling so that the oil is getting hot enough to evaporate fuel in the oil, no, not really something software can change.

If we are talking about changing the software to change when it spits things into FORM, yah, software could be changed there. With that said, if it's going into FORM for good reason, as reports about people in FORM having fuel in their oil suggests, you don't want the software to not put you in FORM.
 

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Fix meaning be able to run the vehicle in the cold Canadian winter. For us here it almost impossible to reach the hot temperatures to clear Form in the winter. Must be a different way this could be fix 😔
 

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Just for reference. I just drove my 4xe on the interstate here in Florida for about 30 miles, it is 76F today. Traffic was at about 75mph and my oil temps were right at 201-203, I had a 10 mile stretch where I got up to 80mph and the oil temp never went about 205. Driving in town the temps were always at around 190.

How are people in cold weather climates supposed to get the temp above 210 and maintain it until the FORM refreshes?
 

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Just for reference. I just drove my 4xe on the interstate here in Florida for about 30 miles, it is 76F today. Traffic was at about 75mph and my oil temps were right at 201-203, I had a 10 mile stretch where I got up to 80mph and the oil temp never went about 205. Driving in town the temps were always at around 190.

How are people in cold weather climates supposed to get the temp above 210 and maintain it until the FORM refreshes?
Well... I've found that when my vehicles used to overheat in the summer (FL) turning on the heat would bring the engine coolant temperatures down.
Since running the A/C causes more load on the ICE and brings the engine temp higher, simply turn on the A/C? :unsure: :LOL: :LOL:
 

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Just for reference. I just drove my 4xe on the interstate here in Florida for about 30 miles, it is 76F today. Traffic was at about 75mph and my oil temps were right at 201-203, I had a 10 mile stretch where I got up to 80mph and the oil temp never went about 205. Driving in town the temps were always at around 190.

How are people in cold weather climates supposed to get the temp above 210 and maintain it until the FORM refreshes?
Here in Alberta the oil temp this time of year doesn't really get above 190F (85-88 C) in my experience with the 4xe. Need to manually shift down and get the rpm's up to get the oil hotter.
 

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Is there a possibility that jeep could release some kind of software update that would limite how much the cooling react depend on temperature? Is that even possible? Is any official word from jeep on the issue? Could this just be an issue with the algorithms or a sensor not happy with the cold? Possible fix with software fix?
As others have said, software updates won't help with the actual physics and reality of the situation. But it would be nice to have a software update that tells us why the engine is needed, rather than F.O.R.M

For example, I suspect it's just low temps and the message could just simply state that. I don't want one general purpose message when it could be multiple reasons for requiring the gas engine at any particular time. Also, some feedback from the vehicle regarding the progress, if it's in a 'correction' state. MORE INFO is the bottom line here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Just for reference. I just drove my 4xe on the interstate here in Florida for about 30 miles, it is 76F today. Traffic was at about 75mph and my oil temps were right at 201-203, I had a 10 mile stretch where I got up to 80mph and the oil temp never went about 205. Driving in town the temps were always at around 190.

How are people in cold weather climates supposed to get the temp above 210 and maintain it until the FORM refreshes?
That’s why I traded it in for a gladiator!!! Lol see FORM final update.
Cheers!!!
 
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