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I decided to cover the grill slots for winter in a very temporary and cheap way. I cut up foam floor tiles and used zip ties.

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If this helps keep the oil temp higher I'll consider doing a neater job since I have plenty of this foam. Just a test for now...
 

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2021 Sahara 4xe
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I decided to cover the grill slots for winter in a very temporary and cheap way. I cut up foam floor tiles and used zip ties.

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If this helps keep the oil temp higher I'll consider doing a neater job since I have plenty of this foam. Just a test for now...
You should plasti-dip those in electric blue :D
 
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Question for this issue. Is there a sensor that detect the gas in the oil? Or this is base on how much the car is started and temperature?
 

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I decided to cover the grill slots for winter in a very temporary and cheap way. I cut up foam floor tiles and used zip ties.

View attachment 3307
View attachment 3306
If this helps keep the oil temp higher I'll consider doing a neater job since I have plenty of this foam. Just a test for now...
Would jeep has something oem or someting aftermarket what would be similar? I know jeep has a properly one but I heard they scratch the paint with the sand from the road. Some kind of insert into the grill seam like a better idea.
 

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FORM working as designed for the long-life of the engine and batteries sounds good to me! For you guys getting your panties all bunched up in a wad about cold-weather operation, take the following design consideration and properties of physics:
  • The 4xe has to operate in cold -30-- deg F Canadian winters AND running in death valley 130++ deg F while running your AC. In winter, the cooling system will barely allow the engine to reach the 190 degree temps needed to burn off gas in the oil unless you want to baffle the radiator (like some are doing) to speed up and maintain this temp in winter driving.
  • Cold weather naturally reduces the effectiveness of batteries (as does excessive hot temps). Add the demands of in-cabin heating and you are likely to get a range of about 1/3 to 1/2 the advertised - maybe 12-15 miles electric only range.
  • Consider any time the gas engine does a short run cycle, which it does for me regularly while running in Hybrid or Electric mode, you get fuel blow-by around the piston rings which works its way into the oil. This reduces the lubricating ability of oil and in extreme cases causes premature bearing and engine wear/failure. Some other manufacturers, like someone posted about Volvo's T8, may not counter this with a FORM algorithm which allows you to operate the electric mode at the expense of engine life, but perhaps even a reduced gas engine life might outlast the usable life expectancy of the vehicle. I doubt you will see many PHEV T8's on the roads in 12-15+ years, but typically Wranglers keep on truckin'.
  • An electric-only vehicle does not have this issue, but also does not have the advantages a gas engine brings. Others have posted a 350 mile range Tesla gets 220+ mile range during cooler months.
  • I live in the mid-west, so I won't be able to use the SOT roof and remove my doors and rear panels for six months, but that does not make me want to trade-in the Jeep for a fixed-roof SUV just because I can't use it as an open-air vehicle that I bought it for last spring. Sheesh!
 

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I get about 20 miles at -11C on EV mode, and 0 miles at -12C. You can’t run on EV under those temps, which is mind boggling, since you will put gas in your oil at those temps if you run the ice ! And have zero gas in your oil if you stay on pure EV. Let people decide what they want for their needs !

And before this « FORM is perfect to protect from damage » propaganda : people start their car on ICE and drive like mad men from the get go. That’s’ not good for the engine, yet FCA does nothing to prevent that kind of damage. From a group that have « liberty » high on their values scale, it should be clear that people should have the liberty to activate 100% EV mode, and that the range hit / limited HP / cold cabin if they want to get no gas in the oil / drive silently.
 

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  • Consider any time the gas engine does a short run cycle, which it does for me regularly while running in Hybrid or Electric mode, you get fuel blow-by around the piston rings which works its way into the oil. This reduces the lubricating ability of oil and in extreme cases causes premature bearing and engine wear/failure. Some other manufacturers, like someone posted about Volvo's T8, may not counter this with a FORM algorithm which allows you to operate the electric mode at the expense of engine life, but perhaps even a reduced gas engine life might outlast the usable life expectancy of the vehicle. I doubt you will see many PHEV T8's on the roads in 12-15+ years, but typically Wranglers keep on truckin'.
You realize that "F.O.R.M" is so prevalent that even in mild temps (50F / 10C) you can be forced to use gas engine, right?

Do you really think we're looking for reasons to complain? The point is that we should be able to decide which mode to use. Clearly if you are only driving 1 or 2 miles and have a fully charged battery, and the outside temperature is mild, you could AVOID the entire problem of short run gas engine cycles by using the electric mode. But as we have learned, the engine will still come on whether you like it or not, and your chance to do the short drive in electric mode is denied. Is it difficult to understand that allowing the option of electric mode would be helpful here?
 

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@Armymen
I do not know factually if it does or not. I do know that after driving the 4xe on the Interstate for 4 hrs at 70mph I got a DTC (P253F) - Engine Oil Deteriorated and the dipstick smelled very strongly like the aromatics (as recently educated) that are added to gasoline and the fill level was at the bend line of the stick.
That has to come from some sort of sensor or algorithm. Wish I knew.
 

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@Hybrid3.0
I don't think my panties are in a bunch, but I am glad my AGM battery still starts my '83 CJ-7 when it's time to pick my 2021 4xe up from the service shop.

Second bullet point - if Jeep would have provided a matrix in the marketing literature that showed Electric Mode range of 25... er, 21 miles at 70F, 10 miles at 90F, 10 miles at 50F, 0 miles at 49F and 0 miles at 91F then I think the pantie bunching would be considerably reduced.

Fifth bullet point - I dont believe your argument here works as intended. In Ohio it gets cold here in the winter too. I can remove my doors, my top, or just roll my windows down on a rare nice day or in the middle of a snow storm. We both get the choice to do with the vehicle what we want, well, except for driving it in Electric Mode 3 miles at 15F to drop the kids off at school when it has been plugged in all night to condition the HV battery. But hey, the 4xe engineers must have gotten it right in this very typical usage case to prevent the purchasers from ...? Using it?
 

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Is it difficult to understand that allowing the option of electric mode would be helpful here?
I imagine that the issue here is that the engineers had to decide between forcing FORM or trusting that people would choose to follow it. With the number of people resetting their oil minders so they can choose to override FORM, with no concept of the consequences of their actions, I can understand why a company warrantying the product would be hesitant to trust people to make the right decision if given the choice.
 

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@Mllcb42
How many have done such a thing? 4 or 5 maybe? It's super clear in the owners manual to reset the OLM only after the oil and filter have been replaced. So that seems covered.

What is not covered in the owners manual is when an owner sees FORM or "Electric Mode Unavailable Cabin Cooling or Heating" for multiple weeks after following the directions in the owners manual.

If you had to speculate, what advice do you think the engineers, given the responsibility of protecting the warrantied vehicle through their design, would recommend to the purchasers of the 4xe in order to drive their PHEVs in Electric Mode again within the temperature ranges listed in the owners manual?

When should they take it to the service centers for assistance under warranty?
 

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How many have done such a thing? 4 or 5 maybe? It's super clear in the owners manual to reset the OLM only after the oil and filter have been replaced. So that seems covered.
A short glance through the 4xe FB groups shows significantly more than that, in a very limited sample group. The point is that people will go out of their way to try to make the vehicle do what they want it to do rather than what it's supposed to do, with complete disregard for the consequences. I can understand why they wouldn't want to give people the opportunity to continuously override a condition designed to keep the motor from failing.

If I had to speculate what they'd actually say, it would be "Just drive the vehicle. When it's satisfied, it'll let you back into electric only mode". I totally get that that isn't what most people want to hear, and I don't doubt that for a subset of the people having FORM issues, things aren't actually functioning as designed, so that isn't the right answer for them, but that's the answer you're likely to get.
 

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I can understand why they wouldn't want to give people the opportunity to continuously override a condition designed to keep the motor from failing.
How is driving in electric mode ever going to result in the engine failing? Or did you mean something different?

No one in their right mind is going to drive around in freezing temps on pure electric, because you'll have to heat the interior and the battery will drain quickly. But in my situation, as it will happen later today I'm sure, I'll have to move the jeep when they clear the parking lot because it snowed a bunch. So I'll simply want to move it to the road while they work, and 20 minutes later I'll have to move it back to my parking spot. And both times, the engine will want to come on because it's really cold out. So I'm actually going to make things WORSE for the engine today, instead of just being able to use the electric mode to avoid the short engine cycle problem.

Not many people seem willing to address this point. It's a blessing to have the electric option to avoid short engine cycles and yet the responses all seem to defend the engineers who prevent us from using that option. Where is the logic in this?
 

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How is driving in electric mode ever going to result in the engine failing?
The 4xe does not have an only electric mode. It is always in a hybrid mode, available to turn the engine on as needed. As such, when it had determined that form is needed, it is going to take steps to prepare the engine to run. That means dealing with the problem at hand.

If it allows you to manually force electric mode, what is actually happening is it is allowing you to manually force it into a condition, where it is expecting at any second for you to go full throttle, requiring a cold start under full load... about the worst thing you can do when concerned about oil dilution.
 

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The 4xe does not have an only electric mode. It is always in a hybrid mode, available to turn the engine on as needed. As such, when it had determined that form is needed, it is going to take steps to prepare the engine to run. That means dealing with the problem at hand.

If it allows you to manually force electric mode, what is actually happening is it is allowing you to manually force it into a condition, where it is expecting at any second for you to go full throttle, requiring a cold start under full load... about the worst thing you can do when concerned about oil dilution.
What is the problem if the user is given the option to not suddenly call the engine into action? I won't need the engine to simply move the jeep from my parking spot to the road. Why must the engine always be ready to fire up when I am the one who knows the situation I'm in?
 

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At some point, you have to make a small number of modes that cover most use cases to simplify operation. There will be corner cases that they don't perfectly satisfy.
 

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At some point, you have to make a small number of modes that cover most use cases to simplify operation. There will be corner cases that they don't perfectly satisfy.
Seems like a software update could handle this.

Is there a safety issue if you are driving in electric (no engine startups allowed) mode?
 

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Seems like a software update could handle this.

Is there a safety issue if you are driving in electric (no engine startups allowed) mode?
Access to only a fraction of the drive train power may be treated that way. There may also be regulatory issues with how one reports power for the vehicle, etc, if you have a mode with only access to a fraction of the power. Hard to say.
 
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