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Have you noticed a difference in oil temps with your grill blocks in place?
Not a night and day difference, but with temps now at -17C / 0F the oil temp is able to get to 88C / 190F without trouble. I'm monitoring the oil temp to make sure it doesn't get hotter than say 95C, but so far it has only gotten to 90C once. I can remove each cover independently so if needed I'll remove one or two. When the temp outside was mild last week, the oil temp was only 85-87C or 185-190F without the grill covers. I put them on once the cold weather rolled in.
 

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2021 Rubicon 4xe
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Why does everyone think they have to drive around to satisfy FORM?? I drove it a bit to warm it up somewhat and parked it and let it idle. Temp controls off. Heated oil up pretty quickly.
 

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Not a night and day difference, but with temps now at -17C / 0F the oil temp is able to get to 88C / 190F without trouble. I'm monitoring the oil temp to make sure it doesn't get hotter than say 95C, but so far it has only gotten to 90C once. I can remove each cover independently so if needed I'll remove one or two. When the temp outside was mild last week, the oil temp was only 85-87C or 185-190F without the grill covers. I put them on once the cold weather rolled in.
Well we had a lot of fresh snow so driving home was a lot of 4x4 fun and I managed to get the oil temp to 101C. This was at -17C / 0F outside temp. Then this morning it was colder out, -25C / -13F and the roads were mostly cleared, and the oil temp only got to 83C. So all 7 grill covers are staying on for now.
 

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@j24xe
Thanks for the testing. Are/were you in FORM for either test and did it get you out, or were these results during "normal" ICE operations?
For the 4x4 fun, Hi or Low range? Speed? Duration?
Thanks again!
 

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@j24xe
Thanks for the testing. Are/were you in FORM for either test and did it get you out, or were these results during "normal" ICE operations?
For the 4x4 fun, Hi or Low range? Speed? Duration?
Thanks again!
It's regularly been in FORM since the cold weather moved in several days ago. Engine is starting every time now on its own. I don't get any notification from the vehicle when it completes FORM, I just look on the messages screen to see if it's still there. So yeah, since I've had the grill covers on, it's been in FORM the entire time.

Using 4x4 Hi, constantly now. My drive home is 20 min usually. I was mostly driving 65km/h (40mph). Some of the roads were covered in a foot of snow and regular cars were crawling. The wrangler is a blast on these roads!
 

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All this talk of the 4xe acting the way it's supposed to is a bit odd when my other car is a 2016 plug in hybrid Audi and the gas engine never kicks in unless I run out of charge. It's kept in the same garage and driven in the same temperatures (same distance trips or even shorter). I'm not a plug-in expert but it seems to me if the Audi is doing fine without having gasoline leak into the oil, why can't a 2021 Jeep work just as well? I also know someone who owns a Mitsubishi plug in and hasn't had this issue. Has anyone heard of any other plug in doing this little dance every time it's cold outside? It's similar to buying a Tesla and finding out it's totally normal you can't drive over 55mph when it's below 35deg outside. It's definitely a problem and Jeep needs to address it asap.
 

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The outlanders have oil dilution issues, just like most every phev.

I also know someone who owns a Mitsubishi plug in and hasn't had this issue


The jeep probably is being more conservative in how they deal with this since it is both a phev and direct injected.



It's important to understand that FORM is a system for combating oil dilution. A brand not having a FORM type system doesn't necessarily mean they don't have oil dilution issues, only that they don't have a system like FORM for dealing with it.
 

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2021 Rubicon 4xe
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The ONLY problem they have is the oil can’t be heated to a high enough degree in cold temperatures with normal driving operations. If that was easier, this would all be an afterthought. So, make a winter front specific to the 4xe. Problem solved.
 

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Remote started the 4xe in the garage for about 7 minutes before taking the kids to school. The ICE fired up which is to be expected.
It is 6F this morning. The dash display showed 22F and the battery cells were around 48F.
Switched to Electric Mode and the ICE shut off. Drove out of the garage on only battery power. Made it 0.7 miles down the road before getting the EMTU message and it fired up the ICE and switching to Hybrid Mode. No mention of fuel or oil or cabin heating or cooling, just EMTU.

It seems clear that beginning at a "perceived" 22F ambient and allowing me to drive it in Electric Mode on battery for the 0.7 miles was enough time for the outside temp sensor to catch up with actual temperature because it read 7F when the ICE forced on. I was doing 20mph in a school zone at the time. To the school and back is a <3 mile round trip.🤦‍♂️

In this particular use case, this is the absolute worst possible automated strategy for self preservation and will do significantly more harm than good had it just stayed in Electric Mode and operated the <3 mile round trip on battery only.

I do admit that there is no way the vehicle could know the trip distance or my driving intentions and I do not have a recommended solution at this time.
 

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Remote started the 4xe in the garage for about 7 minutes before taking the kids to school. The ICE fired up which is to be expected.
It is 6F this morning. The dash display showed 22F and the battery cells were around 48F.
Switched to Electric Mode and the ICE shut off. Drove out of the garage on only battery power. Made it 0.7 miles down the road before getting the EMTU message and it fired up the ICE and switching to Hybrid Mode. No mention of fuel or oil or cabin heating or cooling, just EMTU.

It seems clear that beginning at a "perceived" 22F ambient and allowing me to drive it in Electric Mode on battery for the 0.7 miles was enough time for the outside temp sensor to catch up with actual temperature because it read 7F when the ICE forced on. I was doing 20mph in a school zone at the time. To the school and back is a <3 mile round trip.🤦‍♂️

In this particular use case, this is the absolute worst possible automated strategy for self preservation and will do significantly more harm than good had it just stayed in Electric Mode and operated the <3 mile round trip on battery only.

I do admit that there is no way the vehicle could know the trip distance or my driving intentions and I do not have a recommended solution at this time.
It sucks. Nothing is perfect. Just don’t let it consume you. Enjoy the fact that you have the ability to buy a new Jeep and all that comes with it. There are so many problems people have in the world these days… this one doesn’t rank very high. I do this to myself on a daily basis, so believe me, I’m as guilty as anybody of forgetting what a “real” problem is. As long as it starts and runs, you already have a lot of people on this forum beat.😄
 

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I do admit that there is no way the vehicle could know the trip distance or my driving intentions and I do not have a recommended solution at this time
This is the part I always find funny in that discussion. It had no way of knowing you're just going around the block or that you're not going to floor it, so it prepares for the worst.
 

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This is the part I always find funny in that discussion. It had no way of knowing you're just going around the block or that you're not going to floor it, so it prepares for the worst.
1) It COULD know if it simply ASKS YOU...(before you drive away, select "electric mode max level")
2) If the jeep in full electric mode isn't powerful enough to handle accelerating, then something is wrong. There are wimpy cars out there that don't have an extra source of horsepower that just comes out of nowhere when you need to accelerate suddenly. Again, should be user option, part of the currently fictional "electric mode max level"
 

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It COULD know if it simply ASKS YOU
Until an unforseen emergency situation requires you to drive evasively.

You, the driver, have no way of knowing exactly what's going to be needed. You know what you intend to do, but that's it.
 

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Until an unforseen emergency situation requires you to drive evasively.

You, the driver, have no way of knowing exactly what's going to be needed. You know what you intend to do, but that's it.
Again, as I mentioned, there are plenty of cars on the road that don't have reserve engines standing by in case you need to suddenly go faster. Why do you think this is a requirement if it's perfectly legal for sub-compact cars to be driven on the same roads? Full electric mode should be an option if the driver decides to use it.
 

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I'm not a plug-in expert but it seems to me if the Audi is doing fine without having gasoline leak into the oil, why can't a 2021 Jeep work just as well?
Because it's cheaper to pretend a problem doesn't exist. A thread about FORM tops almost every forum on this site, but not a peep from @JeepCares so far that I've seen. Instead we get what I assume to be corporate sockpuppets defending the indefensible (because that is cheap, as is handing out schwag to forum posters who defend your products).
 

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You've spent too much time reading your conspiracy theory handbook
I've experienced both astroturfing and sockpuppetry on quite a few topics. It's pretty common. I even had a boss who would post reviews under fake names. This was a small repair shop. I don't doubt corporations do it since it's legal, low risk, and often much cheaper than addressing issues. Likewise I've posted on some forums where they indeed give out very nice stuff if you praise the company. This is actually a well studied area of social science. I'm not saying it's happening here for sure, but it does happen a lot and as such it's the first assumption that comes to mind.
 

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But if I understand correctly, short drives using ICE contribute to the problem, and only long extended drives using ICE (or oil change) will solve it. I'd rather use electric-only mode for short drives. And I have no intention of freezing inside the jeep so I'd prefer to warm up the jeep first using the remote start and running the engine. And by the way, this is sensible because if I do need the engine while on a short electric drive, it's already warm.

Seems to me there is a solution to this that can come from Jeep. I had an oil change a week ago and I'm back in perpetual refresh mode. Having this message already after a week and on a daily basis is a great way to annoy customers, especially when nothing indicates how far along your "refresh" is going. Like a download that has no indicator of where the progress is.

So we have engineered babysitter that keeps denying our commands and also an endless warning message that says our gas and oil needs help. Even a few days after your latest oil change. And all the while you are told "hey, you bought it and you can only blame yourself at this point"
Hi
I'm in Winnipeg (-30 lately) and have had a 4xe for 4 days. I had similar problems trying to get the 4xe into electric mode only, until i figured that the issue seems to be using the remote start. Try not using the remote start and once you manually start the jeep, the engine may start, select electric mode, wait for engine to turn off (about 30 to 45 seconds). Then turn on the heating system, etc.. The engine shouldn't turn on. Hot air comes out in less than a minute or so.
I hope this helps?
Mike
 
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