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F.O.R.M failure update

40K views 296 replies 41 participants last post by  Mllcb42 
#1 ·
We’ll update from dealer. After talking with Jeep directly it has been determined that it is working the way it is supposed to?!?!? What does this mean?? If your Canadian you just bought a summer only hybrid!!!! What a misrepresentation!!! Shame on you Jeep!!!
to be fair, I fully understand, but as a new to phev, this should have been explained.Here’s an example, your driving in electric in -35, not uncommon in parts of Canada, you are running out of battery, and you expect the gas engine to be happy it has to start in that condition!! Your going to wreck something!!! Lol
So they did change my oil,reset the computer, do updates, and was told to NOT reset the oil monitor ever!!! It apparently messes up the algorithm in the FORM programming and will make things worse.
So the long and the skinny is if your Canadian don’t plan on using the electric mode from November til April!!!! Depending on where you live. Let the Jeep determine what it wants to do when it gets cold. Also trying to satisfy the FORM requirements like what I did will only cause you a lot of headaches and money!!!
the Jeep will come out of FORM when it’s ready,(like spring time) lol.
Plan to call Jeep Canada to lodge a complaint!!!
Happy Jeepin!!!
 
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#237 ·
My gut is that this is not a "real problem" with the oil/fuel issue but a faulty system reading it wrong. I'm a week in and still functioning fine even with the cold weather we have had.

Now if I could fine a plastic tray for the back end that fits (and not a WeatherTech).....
 
#238 ·
with the oil/fuel issue but a faulty system reading it wrong.
I've seen several people have oil analysis performed that's shown fuel in the oil as expected while in FORM, lots of people complain of their oil smelling of fuel and levels rising, as expected in FORM, and have yet to see anyone have oil analysis performed that shows fuel not in the oil while in FORM that would be evidence of it being an erroneous calculation.
 
#247 ·
That's right but some of those variables kicking in displays the FORM message despite it not being FORM, It's happened a few times.

Either way people make far to big of a deal about FORM. If they actually cared and wanted to understand it they would monitor their vehicle and find out when/why it's in FORM or the EV mode is locked out
 
#248 ·
That's right but some of those variables kicking in displays the FORM message despite it not being FORM, It's happened a few times.

Either way people make far to big of a deal about FORM. If they actually cared and wanted to understand it they would monitor their vehicle and find out when/why it's in FORM or the EV mode is locked out
You're preaching to the choir if you're talking about trying to help people understand the inner workings of the vehicle.
 
#249 ·
I haven’t experienced any problems exiting FORM once I read from someone else’s experience in the Pacifica threads, or with ambient temp EV only mode. I fully understand the parameters of when the vehicle will operate in electric only or why it won’t. Maybe I’m an outlier with this but I doubt it…
 
#250 ·
I fully understand the parameters of when the vehicle will operate in electric only or why it won’t.
Is there a simple, A+B=C explanation somewhere? I know the Dan the engineer post laid out groundwork but even that was vague on some details. What confuses me is there seemed to be quite a few people in cold climates who never experienced FORM and enjoyed full EV use (with the expected decrease in battery range) all winter long. while the vocal minority was/is stuck in FORM hell.
 
#255 ·
Another issue contributing to FORM is when people just "set it and forget it" and leave it in Hybrid mode and don't switch to Electric. If you are on the verge of the temperature parameters for not being allowed in electric mode. Example for me between 0 to -10c leaving it in Hybrid mode will start and stop the engine multiple times. So being in cold weather and having multiple start/stop events = fuel/oil dilution. Where As if I make sure to selec electric mode right after start up then I have no issues staying in electric mode until 1. It gets too cold. 2. I deplete the battery and the ICE starts up.

This is a history of my past 2 weeks where it was below 0c most of the time, but buy selecting electric mode I never had the ICE start once, meaning no chance for the FORM parameters to start stacking up

 
#256 ·
Another issue contributing to FORM is when people just "set it and forget it" and leave it in Hybrid mode and don't switch to Electric. If you are on the verge of the temperature parameters for not being allowed in electric mode. Example for me between 0 to -10c leaving it in Hybrid mode will start and stop the engine multiple times. So being in cold weather and having multiple start/stop events = fuel/oil dilution. Where As if I make sure to selec electric mode right after start up then I have no issues staying in electric mode until 1. It gets too cold. 2. I deplete the battery and the ICE starts up.

This is a history of my past 2 weeks where it was below 0c most of the time, but buy selecting electric mode I never had the ICE start once, meaning no chance for the FORM parameters to start stacking up

My 22 Sahara is a week old with 200 miles. Before yesterday- temps were above 30F. Not a single issue driving Electric (actually In hybrid mode but it prioritized battery until I hit the Highway or encountered a large uphill climb. Or battery depleted.

Yesterday temps dipped to 22F. Hybrid mode still used battery but the ICE came on way more often. Switched to Electric mode and I’d say it switched MORE to ice. Many ice engagements of like 20 seconds to a minute.Even when idling.

so it seems to me that the computer is setting itself up for FORM by deliberately doing the thing that it professes to STOP humans from doing: short cold starts in cold weather. Either locking out Electric Or letting you use Electric seems like it would be a better option than this self-defeating spiral.
 
#257 ·
Just adding my experience while living in warmer climates with this …

I can always get into electric mode from the start, but if I trigger the ice manually or accidentally, there’s no going back to only electric without turning it off.

I’m sure when I first got it, it would let me go back to electric, or it would kill the ice itself after few minutes. Now It just says ‘electric mode unavailable’ and stays in hybrid.
 
#258 ·
Just adding my experience while living in warmer climates with this …

I can always get into electric mode from the start, but if I trigger the ice manually or accidentally, there’s no going back to only electric without turning it off.

I’m sure when I first got it, it would let me go back to electric, or it would kill the ice itself after few minutes. Now It just says ‘electric mode unavailable’ and stays in hybrid.
You're in Step 1 of FORM
 
#260 ·
FORM is an issue I am dealing with in the south. I'm a short distance driver it's one of the reasons I got a 4xe. I knew my 90 day fuel refresh was getting close cause I filled up the day after Christmas after I made a long trip. I use E save and burn gas but it's short trips 10-15 miles one way at most and rarely. I realize now not the way to run the engine in the jeep. today I got the oil changed in the 4xe cause I checked it and it was way over full and strong smell of gas. Just have to remember I need to make longer trips to heat up the oil and do it's thing.
 
#271 ·
Yes, but would that issue cause FORM? I don't think so. The Jeep worked flawlessly all summer without a single FORM issue. The second it dropped under 50 at night, it started. I could never turn the AC or heat on without getting the Cabin cooling or heating issue though.

Yes, I contacted Jeep cares who told me they contacted the dealer who told them no part was on order but then, the SAME day I get a call from the dealer that the part is in and to schedule the fix. Then after the jeep being there for 4 days, they call me with the new part excuse. I made the mistake of not leaving the truck there for good so I could get a lemon law attorney.
You live and learn, I'll never buy another EV from them until I see the issues popping up. Love the jeep when it worked great when the weather was nice but kind of defeats the purpose when it turns into a worse MPG than a regular jeep when the weather gets cold.

Happy Thanksgiving
 
#279 ·
So I reset the oil percentage number and it works perfect. Took it for a 12 mile drive and only kicked into gas engine once when I accelerated to merge on highway at 80 mph. Went right back to electric only when I let off gas down to 70 mph and stayed that way the whole ride home. I guess I am going to have to keep a sticky note in the car with the real oil level until i get low so I can use electric mode.
it's 41 degrees here today.. Turned the heat on and got the normal cabin heating cooling message of course because that's not fixed but at least if I can keep doing the oil reset, I can use it as I should be able to.
 
#282 ·
I guess I am going to have to keep a sticky note in the car with the real oil level until i get low so I can use electric mode
Resetting the oil level is telling the vehicle you have no fuel in the oil. Doing so repeatedly is a recipe for motor failure and a voided warranty.


When i get the FORM, my battery is at about 96 or 97 % when I get home and that's running heated seats and wheel, not sure if they use the electric battery or not?
During "normal" form conditions, the battery would still go down, albeit at a much slower rate than if you were in pure electric.

Running the heater, seats, wheel, etc will draw on the battery. If you're only going down a couple percent on your drive, I bet you're not getting much of any power going to the electric motors. Next time you drive in that condition, pull the the hybrid pages and watch the kWh out of the battery while accelerating and see what it shows.


I suspect the coolant heater issue is causing most of your headaches here.
 
#287 ·
until the temp started falling
Colder temps do a few things

1. Activate the battery coolant heater (which isn't active in the summer) if it's defective you will get CHOC, this also draws more power from the HV battery reducing range
2. Cooler temperatures can trigger the ICE to run, this is normal. If your trips are normally short and the ICE runs for short periods of time you will get FORM, its normal.

I've posted to death on how the vehicle works in the warm and cold, unless you have a defective coolant heater forcing the ICE on, there is nothing wrong with your vehicle
 
#288 ·
Colder temps do a few things
3. Requires a larger injection of fuel on cold start to account for the portion of the fuel charge that condenses on the cylinder wall (and goes directly into the oil)

4. Takes longer for the oil to come to temperature, spending more time running where the net Flux of fuel is into the oil rather than out
 
#289 ·
living in kamloops BC....I am getting a cover for the grill and it is on the way now. We are at -26C today -14.8F. I am rarely using the battery these days though it does kick in to some degree. That being said my husband has a full electric car, and his range is generally 500k in the summer. right now it is 140k! so basically he can go around the corner! on the bright side, when it is -4 or warmer it seems to be working fine. it doesn't matter I still love her. her name is Christine... and it is true, she asks like she is possessed.
 
#292 ·
Hello there! I just leased a new 4xe wrangler. It had 12 miles on it. When I test drove it, it was very low on gas and low charge. Then when I came to pickup the next day, they had filled the tank (for the first time) and charged to 70%. I drove off the lot and about 5 miles down the road, I tried to put vehicle in electric only mode and it said it was temporarily unavailble. I pulled off the road, turned off car. Started it up again and say the FORM message. Still could not put into electric only mode. Drive home - another 25 miles. Pulled into driveway and still could not get jeep into electric only.

Salesguy told me that he had driven it in electric only mode to go fill the tank earlier that day. And that there were no codes when they did pre sale check.

What the hell is going on? Everyone on the forum is talking about FORM issues in cold weather. I'm in San Francisco. It was 62 degrees out.

Is this a lemon. A software issue. Do I just need to drive it longer. It's a brand new $60K vehicle and my plan was to drive it on all electric as much as possible with short 20 mile trips. But I haven't even done that yet and I'm already stuck in FORM albeit it's only been a day. But with a vehicle with 12 miles on it, I don't have much patience for this nonsense.
Any ideas? Thank you!!!
 
#294 ·
Thank you. So even short engine runs (totaling less than 12 miles) in warm weather can trigger FORM? Thought it was short electric only runs that triggered it. And what are the prospects of me using it for 10-20 miles a day only on electric only going forward in mild weather without triggering FORM (after clearing current FORM and engine break in)?
 
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