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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my Jeep is ready at the dealer.
Drove down, asked for the keys to check, guess what!!! No electric mode!!! Lololol!!!
Didn’t say form, just electric mode unavailable!!! Here’s what I know.
1. Changed the oil, found moisture and gas in the oil. Nothing said about it being over the dip stick level.
2. I’m sure the did all the updates and recalls.
3.handed the keys back to the service manager and told him, “no electric mode”, he says, “I know”. Temp was about -20 last night and -18 this morning.
So let’s stop fooling ourselves, my guys at Standard Dodge were left holding the bad egg here. Jeep fed them the same bs, “Jeep is operating as it is supposed to” these guys have bent over backwards to try to accommodate an issue that’s not an issue!! It’s just the way it is.
I personally told the sales staff how I would approach the subject with new customers. Honestly is always the best policy!! We may still have purchased it even knowing that it is a warm weather only electric vehicle. Rest of the time on ICE.
We will be discussing numbers this afternoon on a trade to a gladiator. We will take the weekend to think it over!!!
I’ll let you all know next week which way we go!!!
Happy Jeepin!!!!
 

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So my Jeep is ready at the dealer.
Drove down, asked for the keys to check, guess what!!! No electric mode!!! Lololol!!!
Didn’t say form, just electric mode unavailable!!! Here’s what I know.
1. Changed the oil, found moisture and gas in the oil. Nothing said about it being over the dip stick level.
2. I’m sure the did all the updates and recalls.
3.handed the keys back to the service manager and told him, “no electric mode”, he says, “I know”. Temp was about -20 last night and -18 this morning.
So let’s stop fooling ourselves, my guys at Standard Dodge were left holding the bad egg here. Jeep fed them the same bs, “Jeep is operating as it is supposed to” these guys have bent over backwards to try to accommodate an issue that’s not an issue!! It’s just the way it is.
I personally told the sales staff how I would approach the subject with new customers. Honestly is always the best policy!! We may still have purchased it even knowing that it is a warm weather only electric vehicle. Rest of the time on ICE.
We will be discussing numbers this afternoon on a trade to a gladiator. We will take the weekend to think it over!!!
I’ll let you all know next week which way we go!!!
Happy Jeepin!!!!
Good update. The cold thing is legit. My wife's Bolt range has gone from 240 to 160 and where I live it's still above 0C/32F. It doesn't surprise me that the Wrangler can't operate in EV mode in the cold but it's really disappointing that it seems not to be able to get there even after few minutes of warming up WHILE PLUGGED IN.

Unless you live in SoCal or Florida, you're buying a bad MPG Wrangler with some nice torque. I'm resigned to that from November to May in the US Northeast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That does kind of suck, Mike. But...my having had issues with a Tesla in -15F temps and the very limiting range loss hit at those times, it's not necessarily all bad; that's what I like about PHEVs. A pure EV is going to have some significant limitations in the extreme cold given current/near-future battery tech.
Very true!!
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This is an important take away. This is a strong indicator that FORM was in fact called for and that it resetting the oil minder to make it go away when it's trying to address this problem is probably a bad idea.
You are correct!!! Jeep has told me not to do it again. It messes with the FORM algorithm.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Good update. The cold thing is legit. My wife's Bolt range has gone from 240 to 160 and where I live it's still above 0C/32F. It doesn't surprise me that the Wrangler can't operate in EV mode in the cold but it's really disappointing that it seems not to be able to get there even after few minutes of warming up WHILE PLUGGED IN.

Unless you live in SoCal or Florida, you're buying a bad MPG Wrangler with some nice torque. I'm resigned to that from November to May in the US Northeast.
Yup, kind of a miss representation on jeeps part. Even my dealer didn’t know the limitations, they have only sold 3
And wee just as surprised as me as to the outcome.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Im confused - I swear Ive read numerous posts of folks using electric mode on their 4XEs well below 32F in canada. Are those ones operating incorrectly?
If it’s just below zero maybe. For a bit.
But like I said, dealer just changed oil yesterday. Still at the dealership, I started it up and no electric mode available!!! It was -18 at the time.
 

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Im confused - I swear Ive read numerous posts of folks using electric mode on their 4XEs well below 32F in canada. Are those ones operating incorrectly?
There are two distinct things going on here that would prevent electric only mode in normal operation.

There are vehicles that are in FORM. The vehicle is actively trying to get rid of fuel in the oil. This can occur at higher temperatures, although does appear to occur more often at cold temperatures (in line with the manual saying it will).

There are vehicles that are too cold to run electric only, while the ice is heating things up. This has a lower temperature threshold, but is always going to happen. The temp threshold here is well below 32f.

There are plenty of people in cold environments that aren't in FORM for one reason or another, so they have no issue using electric only, as long as they don't get too cold and trigger the latter of the two there.
 

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Adding to the confusion - Posted on the facebook 4XE Fans group by a Jeep engineer:

Cold Weather Operation of the Wrangler 4xe
Remote start and regular button start will both work, with an EVSE plugged in. That’s a great way to warm the battery and the cabin using energy from the wall. The Jeep will not shift out of Park until you remove the charge handle, to prevent accidentally driving off while plugged in. The plug icon in the cluster gives you a heads up.

You might see Fuel/Oil Refresh more frequently in cold weather. That’s because short engine runtimes in cold temperatures are most conducive to fuel dilution into the engine oil. If this happens, the solution is to get the engine warm and keep it running for up to an hour and a half to evaporate the fuel out of the oil… or change the engine oil.

Here’s what to expect as mornings get colder. All of this logic is true, whether an EVSE is plugged in or not:
  • Above ~32°F, and with sufficient battery and fuel, the vehicle will usually power up silently (ICE not running). The exception is if you have a very high HVAC demand.
  • Below 32°F but above 10°F, the ICE engine will also run at startup. You can select Electric mode to shut it off, relying instead on the electric heaters. There will be a range penalty. If you use remote start in a cold garage, take note exhaust will be emitted.
  • Below 10°F, the engine will always run until various systems are up to operating temperature. Electric mode will be unavailable during warmup. At these temperatures, the electric heater really isn’t an efficient way to heat the cabin, and your EV range would be greatly reduced by that anyway. The same is true of BEV’s, but they don’t have an ICE to help.
  • If it’s below ~5°F outside when you shut down, the instrument cluster will advise you to plug in an EVSE to maintain battery temperature. This is only strictly necessary in case the battery temp falls below -20°F overnight. Level 1 or Level 2 are suitable.
  • All the way down to -20°F, the Jeep can start unassisted (without an EVSE connected). This is the same capability as other Wranglers and most ICE vehicles.
If outside temperature is likely to fall below -20°F, you definitely want to connect an EVSE overnight. The Jeep will wake up periodically and warm and circulate coolant to facilitate a restart. It’s not necessary to also connect a block heater.

With an EVSE connected, the Jeep can start as low as -40°F. This is the same performance a other Wranglers and the best production ICE vehicles - they require block heaters in these temperatures.

Happy Snow-Jeeping!
 

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Reducing the airflow solved the FORM request in my case. I did it by strapping a soft plastic cover to the grill with cable ties. Not the best look but the result was a slightly higher and more stable cooling / engine temperature, and it keeps the engine warm for a longer time running on only electric. This will hopefully also reduce the time between FORM request since the engine runs warmer. There is a Mopar part that does the same (82215366). From my side the problem seems to be that it's unable to regulate the temperature in cold conditions, either by letting to much coolant flow through the radiator or by letting too much air pass through the engine bay. I am guessing the last.
 

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Adding to the confusion - Posted on the facebook 4XE Fans group by a Jeep engineer:

Cold Weather Operation of the Wrangler 4xe
Remote start and regular button start will both work, with an EVSE plugged in. That’s a great way to warm the battery and the cabin using energy from the wall. The Jeep will not shift out of Park until you remove the charge handle, to prevent accidentally driving off while plugged in. The plug icon in the cluster gives you a heads up.

You might see Fuel/Oil Refresh more frequently in cold weather. That’s because short engine runtimes in cold temperatures are most conducive to fuel dilution into the engine oil. If this happens, the solution is to get the engine warm and keep it running for up to an hour and a half to evaporate the fuel out of the oil… or change the engine oil.

Here’s what to expect as mornings get colder. All of this logic is true, whether an EVSE is plugged in or not:
  • Above ~32°F, and with sufficient battery and fuel, the vehicle will usually power up silently (ICE not running). The exception is if you have a very high HVAC demand.
  • Below 32°F but above 10°F, the ICE engine will also run at startup. You can select Electric mode to shut it off, relying instead on the electric heaters. There will be a range penalty. If you use remote start in a cold garage, take note exhaust will be emitted.
  • Below 10°F, the engine will always run until various systems are up to operating temperature. Electric mode will be unavailable during warmup. At these temperatures, the electric heater really isn’t an efficient way to heat the cabin, and your EV range would be greatly reduced by that anyway. The same is true of BEV’s, but they don’t have an ICE to help.
  • If it’s below ~5°F outside when you shut down, the instrument cluster will advise you to plug in an EVSE to maintain battery temperature. This is only strictly necessary in case the battery temp falls below -20°F overnight. Level 1 or Level 2 are suitable.
  • All the way down to -20°F, the Jeep can start unassisted (without an EVSE connected). This is the same capability as other Wranglers and most ICE vehicles.
If outside temperature is likely to fall below -20°F, you definitely want to connect an EVSE overnight. The Jeep will wake up periodically and warm and circulate coolant to facilitate a restart. It’s not necessary to also connect a block heater.

With an EVSE connected, the Jeep can start as low as -40°F. This is the same performance a other Wranglers and the best production ICE vehicles - they require block heaters in these temperatures.

Happy Snow-Jeeping!
This is a fantastic post - Thank you for sharing! Makes perfect sense for the FORM issue and great to hear that the 4xe can run in colder temps but why does the cabin have to be at warmer temps? If the Electric motor is designed to work at 32 and below, why do we get the Electric Mode Unavailable Cabin Heating/Cooling at 50 - 60 degrees? I haven’t been able to run on Electric only for more than 2 miles at a time since October. Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, we made the decision to trade it in. Just don’t think the 4xe is ready for Canadian winters, and I buy my Jeep’s to be bulletproof, I refuse to have to bend over and babysit the FORM issue. Like somebody said in a previous post, this will only be a good choice for select few, and a I’m not one of them!!! Lol
We traded for a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon. I’ll post a pic when I pick it up, I wish you all here the best of luck with your 4xe’s. May you have many happy miles with it.
Cheers,
 

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Well, we made the decision to trade it in. Just don’t think the 4xe is ready for Canadian winters, and I buy my Jeep’s to be bulletproof, I refuse to have to bend over and babysit the FORM issue. Like somebody said in a previous post, this will only be a good choice for select few, and a I’m not one of them!!! Lol
We traded for a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon. I’ll post a pic when I pick it up, I wish you all here the best of luck with your 4xe’s. May you have many happy miles with it.
Cheers,
Damn man, wow. Hope you didn’t take too big a hit on it. Does the new Gladiator have 375hp too??😄 What’s the gas mileage on a Gladiator? Help me understand this move. You just felt cheated?
 
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