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Oh, update on my status :)

So it was still running ICE only, but my drives were down to the grocery and back, like 3 miles round trip :D So a couple of days ago, I ran it up to the Gate station ~8 miles north of us, it never kicked into battery mode, I stopped, topped it off with some 89, about 1/2 a tank, when I turned it back on - poof - normal operating status, no ICE, battery only, could be toggled between the different modes, ICE kicked on with a D>M shift and off as expected.

So not sure what the actually trigger was: another 16 miles, some heavy left foot, opening the gas door, a notable change in the amount of gas, but it's running like it used to.

Again, it started then it sat with about 1/2 a tank, not driven for about 2 weeks.
 

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This - "a notable change in the amount of gas"

Yep, that is what I gathered from Dan. His KISS reference was that there are no sophisticated fuel quality sensors, but simple metrics used to invoke the engine to start and run. It knows how much fuel is in the tank, it knows the last time the engine was ran and for how long, and it knows when more fuel gets added to the tank. As little as 4 new gallons may be enough.

His other comments were in regards to fuel dilution of the engine oil. Cold engines allow some fuel to make it's way past the rings and end up in the oil. The engine has to be ran to heat up the oil, sometimes up to 60 minutes, in order to get the fuel in the oil hot enough to evaporate and get reburnt through the PCV.
 

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This - "a notable change in the amount of gas"

Yep, that is what I gathered from Dan. His KISS reference was that there are no sophisticated fuel quality sensors, but simple metrics used to invoke the engine to start and run. It knows how much fuel is in the tank, it knows the last time the engine was ran and for how long, and it knows when more fuel gets added to the tank. As little as 4 new gallons may be enough.

His other comments were in regards to fuel dilution of the engine oil. Cold engines allow some fuel to make it's way past the rings and end up in the oil. The engine has to be ran to heat up the oil, sometimes up to 60 minutes, in order to get the fuel in the oil hot enough to evaporate and get reburnt through the PCV.
Excellent info, thanks. Our use cycle is generally so short, we're going to need to start using it more :D The other day I ran up to the PetSmart, I took the Tesla, it was early, cool, not raining, I should've taken the 4xe.
 

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Great question and I would really like to know that answer also. The way I understood it, 90 days is what Dan had referenced in @Wrangler4XEFan 's interview as a general timeframe for potentially stale fuel or water condensation buildup in fuel tank that they are wanting to see cycled through the system. That is my interpretation of the information presented, not first hand knowledge.

My question is, if the ICE seems to be running alot and there is no Fuel and Oil Refresh notification, how do we know if it is operating normally or if there is an abnormal issue but not severe enough to set a MIL? Just like an earlier conversation about wondering if the ICE kicks in if the battery coolant temperature reached a certain safety limit in order to take a thermal load off the battery system. How do we know, and how can we find out?

I am also under an assumption that the climate system probably also invokes the ICE. I would venture to guess that a heat request outside a set threshold from the current cabin temperature may pull in the ICE in addition to the electric heater to meet that request more quickly. All speculation, but that's what I would do.

Similar to you, I am finding that my ICE frequently starts up and runs without any apparent reason why an no notifications even if it has a full battery and the vehicle is first placed in Run. It also randomly occurs at relatively low speeds from time to time and of course always in Hybrid Mode. Sometimes I can select Electric Mode and maybe the ICE will instantly or eventually turn OFF, sometimes it says "Not Available" ?

@JeepCares
If there are any experts available that are willing to solve some of these questions that would be awesome!
 

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What if you don’t drive more than the 20 miles needed for the oil refresh. Mine has been stuck in that mode for four days with no sign that it will end and it is destroying my gas mileage.
Hello, all.

We understand why this message may be concerning, but the vehicle is operating as designed.

For some clarity, "Fuel and Oil Refresh" mode is a function that monitors the oil dilution and stale fuel over time. Every time the engine starts, fuel that is not burned can accumulate oil; in Hybrids the engine stop and starts are more frequent and the fuel can accumulate oil at a faster rate. That said, the "Fuel and Oil Refresh" function forces the engine to to refresh and thus avoids the accumulation and promotes the dissipation of the fuel in the oil.

For more information on this, I will link the "Hybrid Supplement" Manual and the accompanying page below.

If any of you have further questions or concerns, we recommend first reviewing the Owner's Manual and then speaking with your servicing/selling dealer.

Thanks!
Jeep Cares


View attachment 441
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What if you don’t drive more than the 20 miles needed for the oil refresh. Mine has been stuck in that mode for four days with no sign that it will end and it is destroying my gas mileage.
Hi, Sflynn37. At this point, we recommend that you bring your Jeep to a dealer for diagnosis.

Kate
Jeep Cares
 

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OK, thought I'd bump this thread.

My previous encounter with this message from two months ago:

We got this message yesterday, started, flashed up, immediately fired up the ICE (even though it was in Hybrid mode), hahaha, I was like, "WTF is all the noise?" :D

Wife took the little G to the dentist, short trip, maybe 8-9 miles, and she said just before she got there, the ICE shutdown, back to glorious battery only. Today, since there was the threat of rain (we leave the top off 98% of the time ...), she took the Tesla, and I popped up to the grocery for a couple of supplies (figured I could make the 3-1/2 mile round trip between rain, I did!), stayed on the whole time.

Here's the thing: we haven't driven it very much, and in just sat for the last 10-11 days or so (we were traveling in the other car), and this is the same tank of gas we've had in it for like 2 months (it's at about 3/4).

I guess I need to think about using it more, gas sitting in the tank for weeks, maybe some stabilizer[?]

And then I resolved it later that week:

Oh, update on my status :)

So it was still running ICE only, but my drives were down to the grocery and back, like 3 miles round trip :D So a couple of days ago, I ran it up to the Gate station ~8 miles north of us, it never kicked into battery mode, I stopped, topped it off with some 89, about 1/2 a tank, when I turned it back on - poof - normal operating status, no ICE, battery only, could be toggled between the different modes, ICE kicked on with a D>M shift and off as expected.

So not sure what the actually trigger was: another 16 miles, some heavy left foot, opening the gas door, a notable change in the amount of gas, but it's running like it used to.

Again, it started then it sat with about 1/2 a tank, not driven for about 2 weeks.

And it's doing it again over the last 7-10 days, I've been driving it a little more, ran it down to 3/4 of a tank, haven't topped it off yet.

I think this system is being a little too aggressive, it should either do it incrementally, like every start, run the engine for 4-5 minutes, then let the normal modes work. Plus, there seems to be some kind of different logic for this mode, that's not indicated - from the manual:

If the vehicle enters Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode, due to fuel which has been in the fuel tank for a long period of time (becoming stale fuel), the engine will run whenever the vehicle is operational (no electric only operation) until the low fuel level warning is activated. It is also possible to exit the Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode sooner by adding a minimum of four gallons of new fuel to the vehicle’s fuel tank.
So if it's the fuel-use-timer, you have to run all the gas out, or run down so you can add at least 4 gallons. But it might be triggered by the oil-engine-lubrication, again per the manual:

If the vehicle enters Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode to maintain engine lubrication, adding fuel will not exit the mode sooner. If the vehicle enters Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode to maintain engine lubrication properties, the engine may run for a period of up to 20 minutes when fully warm whenever the vehicle is operational (no electric only operation). If the vehicle is shut down before conditions to exit the refresh mode have been satisfied, the engine may run for additional time on subsequent trips.
I'm assuming, since we drove it for 30+ minutes continuously the other day (drove out to the Apple Store :) ), 35 miles each way, that 20 minute switch would've been hit, so it must be the fuel-age-use-timer logic.

And if that's the case, that's kicking on too soon, it's not doing any kind of real analysis, only some kind of "you've used 1 gallon in 3 weeks, your fuel is bad" trigger. I wish I knew the actual values, i.e., how much fuel needs to be consumed over what period, it would allow me to plan for gas only usage to prevent this, but it also means that we've got a bit of a "forced" extra cost since we could easily run battery 99% of the time.

Hahaha, not sure if I'm just bitching out loud, seeking an answer, or what, but I feel better :D
 

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| 2012 JKU Sahara | 2021 4xe Sahara |
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The Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode pops for two issues. One is for the purpose of using up potentially stale fuel and the other trigger is to get the oil to burn at high enough temperature to lubricate and burn off any condensation which takes reportedly ~10 minutes with engine running on idle to clear or if you can drive it around raising the oil temperature without the coolant pushing it down.

Very long read of others’ observations and experiences and what worked for them in the Pacifica forum:


Can skip that especially long one back a page or so for shorter solutions or just skim through the parts in bold.
 

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Thanks, I'll peruse that Pacifica thread!

About the two triggers, right, that's basically what I outlined above, the oil I get, but given when it's happened, the runtime didn't reset it, I have to assume it was fuel_used_over_time, and my contention is, that's way too aggressive (but maybe there's some additional discussion in that thread).

FWIW, same thing as before, took about 6 gallons, fired it back up, poof it's running back in normal mode. :)
 

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There may be something wrong. Mine has been stuck in oil/gas refresh for three weeks. It shouldn't have gone into it at all because my battery cooler pump has been broken for two months (probably annother one before they can get the part) so I have not been able to use electric mode and the engine was running regularly. It is all over the place in terms of when it goes on but if the engine starts it will not shut down. I have done everything suggested twice and Jeep Customer Care suggested I bring it in. I have been working with Jeep Wave Customer Care (6 total issues and two recalls) and they called me today and said that after checking into it and consulting with the service manager they believe that it may be a software issue so im bringing it in next week. I will let you know how I make out.


OK, thought I'd bump this thread.

My previous encounter with this message from two months ago:




And then I resolved it later that week:




And it's doing it again over the last 7-10 days, I've been driving it a little more, ran it down to 3/4 of a tank, haven't topped it off yet.

I think this system is being a little too aggressive, it should either do it incrementally, like every start, run the engine for 4-5 minutes, then let the normal modes work. Plus, there seems to be some kind of different logic for this mode, that's not indicated - from the manual:



So if it's the fuel-use-timer, you have to run all the gas out, or run down so you can add at least 4 gallons. But it might be triggered by the oil-engine-lubrication, again per the manual:



I'm assuming, since we drove it for 30+ minutes continuously the other day (drove out to the Apple Store :) ), 35 miles each way, that 20 minute switch would've been hit, so it must be the fuel-age-use-timer logic.

And if that's the case, that's kicking on too soon, it's not doing any kind of real analysis, only some kind of "you've used 1 gallon in 3 weeks, your fuel is bad" trigger. I wish I knew the actual values, i.e., how much fuel needs to be consumed over what period, it would allow me to plan for gas only usage to prevent this, but it also means that we've got a bit of a "forced" extra cost since we could easily run battery 99% of the time.

Hahaha, not sure if I'm just bitching out loud, seeking an answer, or what, but I feel better :D
 

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Mine went in this mode as well after almost 2 months between fill ups and concluded after a few days.

I am the odd man out though because I REALLY wish you could enable this mode on demand. I think Jeep blew it making "electric" and "hybrid" modes so similar. While I'm almost always on battery and realize that's the point of this vehicle, when in "refresh" mode, it blends gas and electric so beautifully that I miss it now that it's done! Instant torque off the line when battery is the main use and then a gradual blending of both as you cruise. So nice to sip gas and more than double the usable range of battery. Wouldn't run it all the time but it was the most fun I had driving it in the entire 4+ months of ownership.

Unfortunately, there's no way other than putting it manual shift mode or drive it so hard the ICE stays running to get the gas and electric to work together for more than a few minutes before the ICE shuts off.
 

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So, put gas in my Sahara for the first time on the weekend. Was able to travel just over 800km (~500 miles) on the first tank, with my consumption at about 8.8L/100km and still dropping. I'm pretty happy with that so far.
Ran into this issue though - since I filled up with "premium" gas on Saturday, my Jeep goes directly into "Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode" once started. Wtf?? It will only run on gas now.
Wondering if anyone else has experienced this or not?
The manual suggests adding at least 4 gallons of gas to get out of it ( "if" the mode was enabled because of stale gas).
Otherwise, it will turn off once the gas light comes on after burning through the current tank of gas.
If it was triggered because of engine lubrication then it is supposed to turn off after 20 min of continuous engine running.
I've tried reseating the fuel cap, switching through all driving modes, but that's about it...what else can a person do?
Tonight I will add some more gas (just didn't have time to burn through a quarter tank or so yet).
FIrst thought was bad gas possibly? I mean, I guess its possible but come on...is this thing going to be that sensitive?
Will give an update later this evening after adding more gas.
How many km or miles on the jeep? Mine has 2200km, it went into refresh over a week ago, I was at just over 1/4 fuel, I stopped and filled up with 87 octane. It went into hybrid, after 5min it went back to gas. I drove it in esave for 2 days, then took it to jeep for 2 updates, still did it. Drove it 2 mores days in esave, and then tried hybrid. It went into hybrid/electric BUT whenever I'd put my foot down, it would go back to refresh mode. Thought the updates would have fixed it, guess not😒
 

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So did someone say letting it idle for an extended time with ice running so as to not have the radiator cool the engine? Therefore heating the oil and cleaning unspent fuel from the oil?? Is this correct??
 
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