Jeep Wrangler 4xe Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone actually flat towed their Jeep4xe behind their RV? Plan to?
‘What brake controller are you using?
I am looking at the BlueOx 3 controller Because of ease of installation and simplicity.
‘The BlueOx 3 manual reads
“Installation Notes
When installing the Patriot 3® on hybrids/vehicles with continuous power assist brakes you must do the following:
1. With the brake plugged in and turned on, use the remote to access the “FORCE” adjustment screen. 2. Use left button to lower the Force setting all the way past 0 until you see “H” for Hybrid mode.”

The Jeep Hybrid supplement does not address flat towing the 4xe or continuous power assist brakes.

Does anyone know if the 4xe has “continuous power assist brakes”? This system provides boost power to the brake, even when the car is in the OFF position. So you still have power brakes, even with the car not running. Apparently some hybrid vehicles have this Feature.

Does anyone have a phone number for a Jeep Technical Rep, that they can share? You can send me a private message.

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Where I said OFF above, I should have said ACC, as the steering Wheel needs to be unlocked To tow 4flat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Where I said OFF above, I should have said ACC, as the steering Wheel needs to be unlocked To tow 4flat.
I have the same question. I'm currently using the RoadMaster "BrakeMaster" system which uses the RV air brakes to activate the TOAD brakes and it lists the same caution. I too have searched very thoroughly and haven't found the answer. fyi, RoadMaster told me to read the manual and Jeep says nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have the same question. I'm currently using the RoadMaster "BrakeMaster" system which uses the RV air brakes to activate the TOAD brakes and it lists the same caution. I too have searched very thoroughly and haven't found the answer. fyi, RoadMaster told me to read the manual and Jeep says nothing.
I called the Jeep Help line and asked them the question. I got a copy of the towing instructions in the owner’s manual. No reference to the 4xe. I have replied and asked if these same instructions apply to the 4xe and received no answer yet. Stay tuned.
‘So when I get my Jeep home in a couple of days, i will do some testing.
‘This concerns me, from page 153 of the owners manual:
The system will automatically time out and the ignition will cycle to the OFF mode after
30 minutes of inactivity if the ignition is left in the ACC or RUN (engine not running) mode and the transmission is in PARK.

‘Does this mean the steering wheel will lock up after it goes in the OFF position?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have the same question. I'm currently using the RoadMaster "BrakeMaster" system which uses the RV air brakes to activate the TOAD brakes and it lists the same caution. I too have searched very thoroughly and haven't found the answer. fyi, RoadMaster told me to read the manual and Jeep says nothing.
So I have answered some of my own questions, with additional research, as I went along. Sorry about that.
1. The Jeep steering column does not lock, so the Jeep can be towed with the ignition in the OFF position. Take the fob with you.
2. My initial concern about the steering and brake pump working is not a problem, because it will be towed in the OFF position.
3. My concern about a brake controller that worked with Hybrids is off the table.

it appears to me now, that with 4 wheels down, transfer case in Neutral, transmission in Park and ignition in the OFF position, the 4xe should tow like any other Jeep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
So I have answered some of my own questions, with additional research, as I went along. Sorry about that.
1. The Jeep steering column does not lock, so the Jeep can be towed with the ignition in the OFF position. Take the fob with you.
2. My initial concern about the steering and brake pump working is not a problem, because it will be towed in the OFF position.
3. My concern about a brake controller that worked with Hybrids is off the table.

it appears to me now, that with 4 wheels down, transfer case in Neutral, transmission in Park and ignition in the OFF position, the 4xe should tow like any other Jeep.
Please let us know if this works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Has anyone towed yet? I'm getting ready to set up my 4xe this week and want to see if anyone ran into any snags!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Hi All, I'm a little late to the thread, but I too have had a hard time finding any definitive info on flat towing a 4xe. I just got back from a 17 day trip towing the Wrangler, so I thought I'd summarize what I learned here.

tl;dr: It tows like any other Wrangler, but needs some adjustment to supplemental braking systems and a source of 12V power while towing.

The Good Part:

1) No special concessions are needed for the hybrid drive train. Once the transfer case is in Neutral, the 4xe will tow exactly like a regular Wrangler.
2) I used the Blue Ox baseplate for a JL Wrangler and the Blue Ox plug and play wiring harness for the tail lights. Everything installed with no modifications and the blind spot/cross traffic alert from the tail light sensors wasn't affected by the harness. Any flat towing baseplates and accessories designed for the JL should work fine.

The "Not bad, but needs to be taken into consideration" Part:

Supplemental braking is a bit touchy. I use a Brake Buddy Digital Classic for my supplemental braking. It's designed for a standard ICE setup that includes a vacuum brake booster. When the Brake Buddy starts up, it pumps the brake pedal 5 times to clear the vacuum reservoir of the brake booster so that it doesn't lock up the wheels when the braking pressure is applied to the brake pedal. The pressure setting I used on my 2018 Sport was 65 PSI. According to the weight/pressure table for the Brake Buddy, I should be using 75 PSI to compensate for the weight of the 4xe.

I set it to 75 PSI and did a test stop from about 15 MPH. I received instant whiplash, the forward ejection of all loose objects in the RV, and the "what did you do?!" glare from my spouse.

It turns out that the 4xe has some sort of electric brake booster that is always active and will always work, even when the engine is off. As far as I can tell, there isn't any way to disable it, so you'll need to compensate by having your supplemental braking system of choice push the brake pedal much more gently and with barely any travel. In my case, I now set my Brake Buddy to 7 PSI (it sometimes drifts as high as 12 PSI) so it barely presses the pedal a quarter of the way when it triggers. This worked well for slowing the Jeep and the coach without locking up the wheels on the Jeep. I'm not sure how you would compensate on a fully mechanical system like a Reddy Brake, or other cable driven system unless you can adjust the amount that the cable pulls on the brake pedal.

A side effect of the electric brake booster is that it consumes power from the 12V battery on the Jeep. (Side note: I'm running the Brake Buddy off of a Jumper battery, not the Jeep battery, so power consumption isn't coming from the Brake Buddy) If I tow for a single day and unhook the Jeep and drive it around a little before the next day of towing, I don't have any issues. If I tow for two days straight without unhooking the Jeep, I see the following errors consistently:

1) The message that the battery is charging and the Aux switches are temporarily disabled - This goes away as soon as you run the vehicle for 20-30 mins and let the 12V battery charge while driving.
2) The message that the Stability Control needs to be serviced and the yellow Stability Control error light comes on - This clears within 5 minutes of driving the vehicle
3) One time I had a check engine light come on as well - This cleared after three successful start - run - stop cycles

It seems that having the 12V battery drain significantly while the Jeep isn't running makes some systems pretty angry. I'd recommend adding a battery tender that feeds off of your 12V line on the trailer plug of your RV. I'll be doing this soon in the hope that it will keep those errors from happening.

Hills

I saw some other posts asking about how the extra weight of the 4xe would affect towing up hills. We did some mountains in Wyoming and Montana. I have a Coachmen Mirada on a Ford F-53 chassis with the Triton V10. Probably one of the the most common Class A platforms out there. On a 7% grade, I was able to maintain 45 MPH climbing the mountain. I'd probably consider that the steepest you'd want to climb with the gas V10. Due to an oversight of navigation, we ended up climbing a 10% grade one time. I barely kept it at 18 MPH. I don't recommend trying that. Downhill isn't a problem with the V10's hyperactive downshifting in Tow/Haul mode. On a 7% grade, the engine braking alone did a good job of maintaining speed. On the 10% grade, I had to do a lot of braking (and consequently used the Jeep's supplemental braking a lot as well).

I hope this info is helpful for anyone still looking for answers about flat towiing the 4xe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Thank you VERY much for the feedback. We're leaving for a trip next Monday and I've been looking all over for anyone who has towed to see how it goes. Did you weight your Wrangler to see what it came in at? What kind of mileage did you get?

I'll need to rethink some of my route.

I'm having the Demco Stay-IN-Play DUO being installed on the Wrangler right now and the tow hitch and frame beefed up on my F53 chassis with Triton V10 as well (Forestriver F53). I do have the battery being charged as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I didn't weigh the Wrangler. I just figured it fell in the 5,100 - 5,300 range. I stopped tracking mileage on the RV a couple of years ago. It varies so much by the terrain and is a generally depressing number. 😁 I'd guess that I got between 5-7 MPG on level ground (depending on whether the generator was running) and no more than 3 MPG while climbing the steeper parts of our route.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Have you tested out your controller yet?
Thank you VERY much for the feedback. We're leaving for a trip next Monday and I've been looking all over for anyone who has towed to see how it goes. Did you weight your Wrangler to see what it came in at? What kind of mileage did you get?

I'll need to rethink some of my route.

I'm having the Demco Stay-IN-Play DUO being installed on the Wrangler right now and the tow hitch and frame beefed up on my F53 chassis with Triton V10 as well (Forestriver F53). I do have the battery being charged as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Anyone know which fuse controls the brake assist? Or figured out another way to disable?
My brake buddy vantage select only goes down to 20psi which sounds too high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Anyone know which fuse controls the brake assist? Or figured out another way to disable?
My brake buddy vantage select only goes down to 20psi which sounds too high.
I looked very carefully in both the base user manual and the 4Xe supplement and was not able to identify a fuse for this function. :( After thinking about it, it is very likely that the brake boost function is embedded in the ABS system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Anyone know which fuse controls the brake assist? Or figured out another way to disable?
My brake buddy vantage select only goes down to 20psi which sounds too high.
F 34 is the fuse you are looking for. Page 69 of the hybrid supplement. The power steering pump supplies power to the steering and the brakes.
‘Pulling F34 fuse COULD BE the easiest solution.

‘Here is a reply from Jeep on flat towing and the electric hydraulic pump:

‘Hi, I had a chance to discuss your inquiry with internal teams and you are correct, the 4xe's electrohydraulic brake booster (including brake boost) does function during flat towing. I hope this helps, please let me know if you have any other questions.’

i would be very interested in knowing your results, if you pull F34 and tow. It certainly takes care of preventing drain on the battery and having a brake controller for a hybrid car. One more thing to add to the checklist.
Pull fuse before towing, insert fuse after towing. I guess worst case, you’d know right away you forgot to insert the fuse back in, when you need Superman to turn the wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi All, I'm a little late to the thread, but I too have had a hard time finding any definitive info on flat towing a 4xe. I just got back from a 17 day trip towing the Wrangler, so I thought I'd summarize what I learned here.

tl;dr: It tows like any other Wrangler, but needs some adjustment to supplemental braking systems and a source of 12V power while towing.

The Good Part:

1) No special concessions are needed for the hybrid drive train. Once the transfer case is in Neutral, the 4xe will tow exactly like a regular Wrangler.
2) I used the Blue Ox baseplate for a JL Wrangler and the Blue Ox plug and play wiring harness for the tail lights. Everything installed with no modifications and the blind spot/cross traffic alert from the tail light sensors wasn't affected by the harness. Any flat towing baseplates and accessories designed for the JL should work fine.

The "Not bad, but needs to be taken into consideration" Part:

Supplemental braking is a bit touchy. I use a Brake Buddy Digital Classic for my supplemental braking. It's designed for a standard ICE setup that includes a vacuum brake booster. When the Brake Buddy starts up, it pumps the brake pedal 5 times to clear the vacuum reservoir of the brake booster so that it doesn't lock up the wheels when the braking pressure is applied to the brake pedal. The pressure setting I used on my 2018 Sport was 65 PSI. According to the weight/pressure table for the Brake Buddy, I should be using 75 PSI to compensate for the weight of the 4xe.

I set it to 75 PSI and did a test stop from about 15 MPH. I received instant whiplash, the forward ejection of all loose objects in the RV, and the "what did you do?!" glare from my spouse.

It turns out that the 4xe has some sort of electric brake booster that is always active and will always work, even when the engine is off. As far as I can tell, there isn't any way to disable it, so you'll need to compensate by having your supplemental braking system of choice push the brake pedal much more gently and with barely any travel. In my case, I now set my Brake Buddy to 7 PSI (it sometimes drifts as high as 12 PSI) so it barely presses the pedal a quarter of the way when it triggers. This worked well for slowing the Jeep and the coach without locking up the wheels on the Jeep. I'm not sure how you would compensate on a fully mechanical system like a Reddy Brake, or other cable driven system unless you can adjust the amount that the cable pulls on the brake pedal.

A side effect of the electric brake booster is that it consumes power from the 12V battery on the Jeep. (Side note: I'm running the Brake Buddy off of a Jumper battery, not the Jeep battery, so power consumption isn't coming from the Brake Buddy) If I tow for a single day and unhook the Jeep and drive it around a little before the next day of towing, I don't have any issues. If I tow for two days straight without unhooking the Jeep, I see the following errors consistently:

1) The message that the battery is charging and the Aux switches are temporarily disabled - This goes away as soon as you run the vehicle for 20-30 mins and let the 12V battery charge while driving.
2) The message that the Stability Control needs to be serviced and the yellow Stability Control error light comes on - This clears within 5 minutes of driving the vehicle
3) One time I had a check engine light come on as well - This cleared after three successful start - run - stop cycles

It seems that having the 12V battery drain significantly while the Jeep isn't running makes some systems pretty angry. I'd recommend adding a battery tender that feeds off of your 12V line on the trailer plug of your RV. I'll be doing this soon in the hope that it will keep those errors from happening.

Hills

I saw some other posts asking about how the extra weight of the 4xe would affect towing up hills. We did some mountains in Wyoming and Montana. I have a Coachmen Mirada on a Ford F-53 chassis with the Triton V10. Probably one of the the most common Class A platforms out there. On a 7% grade, I was able to maintain 45 MPH climbing the mountain. I'd probably consider that the steepest you'd want to climb with the gas V10. Due to an oversight of navigation, we ended up climbing a 10% grade one time. I barely kept it at 18 MPH. I don't recommend trying that. Downhill isn't a problem with the V10's hyperactive downshifting in Tow/Haul mode. On a 7% grade, the engine braking alone did a good job of maintaining speed. On the 10% grade, I had to do a lot of braking (and consequently used the Jeep's supplemental braking a lot as well).

I hope this info is helpful for anyone still looking for answers about flat towiing the 4xe.
‘Very complete post, thank you very much for posting, I’m the guy who started the thread. You answered lots of my questions. I hope I can help you with brake pressure and drain in the battery.

‘The one surprise I had, was the draining of the battery during flat towing, only because I was not familiar with electric cars. According to my Jeep tech, ex long time GM mechanic, most hybrids run the steering fluid pump to supply boost to steering and braking functions, even with the ignition switch in the OFF position.

‘’Here is a reply I got back today from Jeep when I asked them if the brakes were being supplied power while the Ignition is OFF:
Hi, I had a chance to discuss your inquiry with internal teams and you are correct, the 4xe's electrohydraulic brake booster (including brake boost) does function during flat towing. I hope this helps, please let me know if you have any other questions.

Fuse F34, page 69 of the Hybrid supplement, controls the power steering pump, which supplies boost to both the power steering and the brakes. So, one solution COULD BE, pull fuse F34 while flat towing. Two problems solved, lets you use your brake controller at normal pressures and stops the battery from draiNing.
‘I was thinking of a DC to DC charger from the RV to the Jeep. But, if pulling F34 accomplishes what we need. Maybe that’s a cheaper and cleaner solution. All of the non 4xe Jeeps tow just fine without boost to the brakes or power steering. So, do you really need the pump running while towing?? Plus think of all the wear and tear on that pump while towing.

I welcome other thoughts on the subject and if somebody pulls F34 and tows, please let the rest of us know.
‘The only downside I see at this time is remembering to put the fuse back in after towing and I bet it will only take one turn of the steering wheel to have an aha moment And remember to put it back in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I'm two days into a 13 day trip. Started in Los Angeles and now in Alpine, WY, about 800 miles along the 15 FWY with tons of long flat stretches. I went and had my ForestRiver FR3 upgraded to a class 5 hitch to handle the weight. I'd say 90% of the trip I was towing at 70 MPH, no problem at all. I had one steep climb in Idaho where I dropped to 35 MPH but it was short most of the other climbs I maintained 50 MPH with the engine still at 2500 RPM. Mileage was honestly barely affected except when climbing. I'm using the Stay-in-play Duo braking system cranked way down.

Here's my question though, none of the steps to set up a jeep to flat tow work properly (and there are no steps in the 4XE manual) as they all say to turn the Jeep off BEFORE putting it into Park. The 4XE computer won't let you do that. You have to be in Park before turning the Jeep off. Of course, there's a warning online saying that could cause damage but I don't see any other way. So I put it into Park, turn it off, release eBrake and then tow away. The transfer case is of course in Neutral. Is this correct? Is there another way?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
What psi is your brake controller at?
The Duo doesn't have a way to see an exact value that I can tell. It has a dial you turn up and down. The guys I had install it had worked with other hybrids before so they were used to active braking. They called Jeep as well to confirm. I found the Settings too sensitive as it was still braking under 10 mph today so I turned it down a bit more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I'm two days into a 13 day trip. Started in Los Angeles and now in Alpine, WY, about 800 miles along the 15 FWY with tons of long flat stretches. I went and had my ForestRiver FR3 upgraded to a class 5 hitch to handle the weight. I'd say 90% of the trip I was towing at 70 MPH, no problem at all. I had one steep climb in Idaho where I dropped to 35 MPH but it was short most of the other climbs I maintained 50 MPH with the engine still at 2500 RPM. Mileage was honestly barely affected except when climbing. I'm using the Stay-in-play Duo braking system cranked way down.

Here's my question though, none of the steps to set up a jeep to flat tow work properly (and there are no steps in the 4XE manual) as they all say to turn the Jeep off BEFORE putting it into Park. The 4XE computer won't let you do that. You have to be in Park before turning the Jeep off. Of course, there's a warning online saying that could cause damage but I don't see any other way. So I put it into Park, turn it off, release eBrake and then tow away. The transfer case is of course in Neutral. Is this correct? Is there another way?
I don’t know the answer but doesn’t it go into something like AutoPark (I am forgetting the exact term) if shut off before putting into Park? My 4xe still hasn’t arrived after ordering in April so I can’t even try to tow it yet but recall seeing something about that when I downloaded the manual. Would that work for towing?
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top