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2021 Unlimited Sahara 4xe Blue, 2021 F150 3.0 POWERSTROKE XLT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello forum!

I've seen a couple other posts about this issue as well and wanted to document ours.

4400 miles on my wife's 4xe - brought it home July 30.

Checked the oil today and it's quite high and smells like gas pretty strong. I checked it around 3k and it was slightly high but not like this. Guessing it's gas getting by with engine cold.

I'm planning on doing my own changes at 5k mile intervals, but wondering if we should bring it in to address or at least document this? Last time we brought it in it took 40 days for the charging module so I'd rather avoid that!

Gets driving almost every day about 24 miles round trip. So it's not like it sits around alot.

Pic attached. This is on a cold engine in our heated garage after I wiped the stick and rechecked. Have there been any recalls or campaigns for this?

The temps have been cold lately I'm Minnesota so the ICE runs almost all the time.
 

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2022 Rubicon 4xe
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Hard to tell scale in that picture but is it almost 2 inches above full? I'm not a mechanic by any means but that seems like an awful lot of fuel for just blowby in so relatively few miles. I'd be concerned that the gasoline is washing the oil off surfaces and not lubricating properly. While i do change my oil myself also in this case I'd call the dealer and let them decide what to do in case it turns out to be something more complicated like a head gasket.

And someone more knowledgeable than me please chime in if I'm on the wrong track!

Hello forum!

I've seen a couple other posts about this issue as well and wanted to document ours.

4400 miles on my wife's 4xe - brought it home July 30.

Checked the oil today and it's quite high and smells like gas pretty strong. I checked it around 3k and it was slightly high but not like this. Guessing it's gas getting by with engine cold.

I'm planning on doing my own changes at 5k mile intervals, but wondering if we should bring it in to address or at least document this? Last time we brought it in it took 40 days for the charging module so I'd rather avoid that!

Gets driving almost every day about 24 miles round trip. So it's not like it sits around alot.

Pic attached. This is on a cold engine in our heated garage after I wiped the stick and rechecked. Have there been any recalls or campaigns for this?

The temps have been cold lately I'm Minnesota so the ICE runs almost all the time.
 

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2021 Unlimited Sahara 4xe Blue, 2021 F150 3.0 POWERSTROKE XLT
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Have you been getting into FORM?

Any idea what your oil temps are getting to during your day to day driving?
I'm not sure what oil temps are. The only thing my wife has shared is that the gas engine has been running almost all the time and she got a "condition battery" message or something when it was colder - like below 0 degrees F.

If I hook my scanguage 2 up will I be able to monitor oil temps?
 

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2022 Rubicon 4xe
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I believe oil temp is available if you scroll through the menus in the display or in the off-road pages - no scan tool required.

I'm not sure what oil temps are. The only thing my wife has shared is that the gas engine has been running almost all the time and she got a "condition battery" message or something when it was colder - like below 0 degrees F.

If I hook my scanguage 2 up will I be able to monitor oil temps?
 

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I'm not sure what oil temps are. The only thing my wife has shared is that the gas engine has been running almost all the time and she got a "condition battery" message or something when it was colder - like below 0 degrees F.

If I hook my scanguage 2 up will I be able to monitor oil temps?
If she parks and it's below about -5, it will prompt her to plug in so it can condition the battery. That's normal.


No messages about fuel/oil refresh mode and you're not resetting the oil indicator to make it go away like some people?


Did uou check the oil per the manual; that is, warm engine that's been off for 5 minutes when checking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If she parks and it's below about -5, it will prompt her to plug in so it can condition the battery. That's normal.


No messages about fuel/oil refresh mode and you're not resetting the oil indicator to make it go away like some people?


Did uou check the oil per the manual; that is, warm engine that's been off for 5 minutes when checking?
What's a manual? Lol. No - cold engine. Maybe I'll take it for a drive and recheck later. It's around 55 degrees in our garage where it's parked.

We haven't reset anything. No messages about conditioning. It gets refuels frequently and the ICE runs some every trip so I'm thinking it shouldn't be a problem.
 

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Probably worth checking it "properly" to make sure the level is consistent. I doubt it'd make that much of a difference, but worth baselining properly.

PHEVs have a tendency to accumulate fuel in the oil if it isn't properly driven off. Failing to get the engine fully up to temperature can cause that to compound. The 4xe usually kicks people in FORM (fuel oil refresh mode) when this is happening, which forces them to run with the engine on until it gets sufficiently hot. As it's been getting colder, this has been increasingly more common. The number one complaint is that it doesn't allow people to run in electric only mode (I do wonder if you tried to do so, if it would trigger the warning).

The solution, at least in that situation, is to make sure that the engine gets sufficiently hot (oil temp to 210F) and run it for a while like that. I'd bet that you're not hitting those numbers. If you have a chance to drive with the offroad pages up, watch the oil temp and see what it's doing. If you're struggling to get there because of the weather outside, a cold weather grill cover may be a good plan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, I took a drive to warm it up to recheck and learned several things.

1. When I turned it on and was flipping through menus to find oil temp it was in hybrid mode, and the ICE started and I got the message for "Fuel and oil refresh" mode. So I'm guessing it's been in that for a while. Electric mode was unavailable when I checked.

2. I drove 19 miles. Oil temp was 55 degrees F when I started the jeep. It was 25 degrees outside. The warmest I could get the oil was 185 degrees. It reached this temp after about 12 miles and held. Highway country driving around 60 mph.

3. Engine coolant reached operating temp - 192 - after about 7 miles. Then it fluctuated with the thermostat.

4. Rechecked oil after it sat about 10 minutes. Still way over-full to about the bend in the stick.

So the oil isn't getting warm enough to burn off the gasoline, right? Reaching some other threads I think I'd have to drive slowly off-road or something to bring it up to temp but that's not something that's really practical. So I think my plan is:

1. Grab a filter and change the oil. (I already have a case of amsoil for it).

2. Order and install a winter front and see if that will allow oil to reach operating temperature in normal driving.

3. Make sure someone takes it on a longer trip sometimes. I have a f150 diesel and we usually use that for family trips but we'll need to take the jeep once in a while.

If the winter front doesn't work to help the oil get to temp I'll have to look for a plan b. It's not even that cold yet!
 

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Your results are pretty much in line with my expectations. If you're only getting up to 185F, you're quite a ways away from where you need to be to satisfy fuel oil refresh mode, which presumably is also far from where you need to be to efficiently drive off the fuel in the oil.

Your plan is exactly what I would do. You will likely find that fuel oil refresh mode goes away when you change the oil and reset the maintenance minder.
 

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If in doubt regarding engine oil I would HIGHLY recommend a lab test of your engine oil (which among other indicators will provide you with the info on how flamable your oil is i.e how much % of gas you have in your oil for example etc etc.)
Fuel in oil is a long story and for many that is normal in a certain % but be careful with this % because thermic engine components might be damaged in case of lack of lubrication. Main enemy of any engine oil is high temperature. Lubrication within specific parameters set by engine producers is a KEY factor for a long lasting engine life.
Therefore, I would highly NOT recommend oil resetting in 4xe as many here recommend when FORM messages pops on your dash without changing the engine oil and the filter. Wrongfully operating your vehicle may void your warranty.
Producer is fully aware of what I wrote above. In Europe there're cars with oil dip stick which has a normal and a "higher normal" mark especially the newer engines which shows how aware producers are regarding this debated topic of "fuel in engine oil".
I came from a 2.8 VM Motori crd diesel JK world (almost 12 years now) and had bad experiences with to much % diesel in engine oil with my .... second engine :)) (in my case as diesel JKU owner it was an expensive chain reaction which was triggered once the lab results came back positive with flagging some critical parameters with respect to oil composition: turbine had to be replaced, diesel particle filter to be eliminated (to change DPF would have been to much for my budget) ecu remap, egr delete, etc etc - however I was lucky that injectors and that side of the engine were not affected though). To make it short a clogged DPF of my JKU diesel was the brute cause of the above and somwhere in the chain one of the very first signals was oil level increase which had a strong diesel smell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If in doubt regarding engine oil I would HIGHLY recommend a lab test of your engine oil (which among other indicators will provide you with the info on how flamable your oil is i.e how much % of gas you have in your oil for example etc etc.)
Fuel in oil is a long story and for many that is normal in a certain % but be careful with this % because thermic engine components might be damaged in case of lack of lubrication. Main enemy of any engine oil is high temperature. Lubrication within specific parameters set by engine producers is a KEY factor for a long lasting engine life.
Therefore, I would highly NOT recommend oil resetting in 4xe as many here recommend when FORM messages pops on your dash without changing the engine oil and the filter. Wrongfully operating your vehicle may void your warranty.
Producer is fully aware of what I wrote above. In Europe there're cars with oil dip stick which has a normal and a "higher normal" mark especially the newer engines which shows how aware producers are regarding this debated topic of "fuel in engine oil".
I came from a 2.8 VM Motori crd diesel JK world (almost 12 years now) and had bad experiences with to much % diesel in engine oil with my .... second engine :)) (in my case as diesel JKU owner it was an expensive chain reaction which was triggered once the lab results came back positive with flagging some critical parameters with respect to oil composition: turbine had to be replaced, diesel particle filter to be eliminated (to change DPF would have been to much for my budget) ecu remap, egr delete, etc etc - however I was lucky that injectors and that side of the engine were not affected though). To make it short a clogged DPF of my JKU diesel was the brute cause of the above and somwhere in the chain one of the very first signals was oil level increase which had a strong diesel smell.
I don't disagree that an oil analysis would be a good idea. I'm going to take the other steps to change the oil and try keeping the engine temp warmer to see if that solves the rising oil level issue.

And no, we won't be resetting the FORM just to make it go away.

I've owned a lot of diesel VWs through the years so I know that sometimes the owner just has to find a way to make the vehicle function at it's best. That's what we'll try to do. Unfortunately I can't convince her to trade it for an ecodiesel. Lol.
 

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EcoDiesel VM I would highly NOT recommend in case of Jeep especially if you plan to modify the vehicle. Many of my Jeep club colleagues had serious issues with these "Eco"Diesels including during warranty period. My 2.8 Diesel had a serious overheating problem which I solved by installing an aftermarket German 800W electric fan kit (dang ... expensive kit but solved the matter up to 35"s! In combination to changing the % cooling blend to max -25C).
Have a look into US RAM forums about this engine and be happy you're into gas engine realm of course if you want a Jeep and especially a Wrangler which you'll wish to modify :))) .... my 0.2c humble opinion ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Step one complete - oil and filter changed. 5 qts brings it about 3/4 up the crosshatches on the stick.

Winter front ordered and should be here next week. I'll try that first. But the oil pan is also completely open and if the winter front doesn't bring temps up quick enough I'll probably try some sort of oil pan cover/blanket. All my other recent vehicles have had this and I was surprised to not find one. First Chrysler product I guess.
 

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@dieselpony
Currently going through a series of struggles with our 4xe. Personally, I would have at minimum taken it to a Jeep service center to have the issue documented on your vehicle history even if you plan on doing your own maintenance. I would hate to see 5 years and 1 day from now a major engine issue being denied for you because there was no history of this preexisting issue in your vehicle file.

What I can caution you and everyone else that performs their own maintenance during the warranty period - KEEP RECORDS AND RECEIPTS!

We have had the same amount of excessive gasoline in the engine oil as you, but have never gotten the FORM message on our 4xe. If we do and cannot get out of FORM as it relates to excessive gasoline in the engine oil by following the steps in the owners manual, I want a Jeep/Stellantis approved and supported resolution to getting out of FORM in cold climates. Our engine oil doesn't get above 190F in the summer, I don't know how we will ever see +210F in the winter here in Ohio.
I very much appreciate the communities collaboration and recommendations to try and find solutions to these issues that Jeep/Stellantis either has not tested for or is remaining silent about. Anything has to be better than the service center saying just keep driving it like that, we'll replace the motor if it blows up.🤦‍♂️

If they see fit to test and approve a grill cover as a solution and support its use on the 4xe, then I would definitely see that as a viable solution, otherwise it screams unapproved modification - warranty denied. Drive it on the highway and manually hold it in 4th gear - abuse, warranty denied. Didn't notify service center of the over full level of oil on the dipstick - monthly maintenance requirements not followed, warranty denied. Reset the OLM to get out of FORM and didn't change the oil and filter as required - not following proper maintenance requirements, warranty denied. Added a heater/fan/resistor to the outside temp sensor to trick the vehicle into submission - uhhh???, warranty denied.

Good luck to all, keep records!
 

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Hard to tell scale in that picture but is it almost 2 inches above full? I'm not a mechanic by any means but that seems like an awful lot of fuel for just blowby in so relatively few miles. I'd be concerned that the gasoline is washing the oil off surfaces and not lubricating properly. While i do change my oil myself also in this case I'd call the dealer and let them decide what to do in case it turns out to be something more complicated like a head gasket.

And someone more knowledgeable than me please chime in if I'm on the wrong track!
Hello all! It won't have anything to do with head gaskets; as this would cause a coolant problem instead. Normally when you have excess fuel in the crankcase, this is from leaky fuel injectors etc. This can be cause by bad injectors that flow while the engine is off; such as overnight while in the garage. Either way, this is bad, it will cause the CE light to come on and can cause other base engine damage. I would say; yes, get it checked while under warranty.
 

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Hello all! It won't have anything to do with head gaskets; as this would cause a coolant problem instead. Normally when you have excess fuel in the crankcase, this is from leaky fuel injectors etc. This can be cause by bad injectors that flow while the engine is off; such as overnight while in the garage. Either way, this is bad, it will cause the CE light to come on and can cause other base engine damage. I would say; yes, get it checked while under warranty.
Fuel in the oil is an incredibly common thing with phevs due to the high number of cold starts and the resulting blow by past the rings before the engine comes up to temperature.
 
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