Jeep Wrangler 4xe Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had my 4xe a little more than 2 weeks now.

Total mileage 545 miles. Electric Miles 330. Hybrid Miles 215.5. I currently indicate slightly above 1/2 tank remaining.

I drive an 80 mile round trip 2 to 3 days a week. The rest is local driving most/all of which is in range of a full charge.

I have played around with different options (Hybrid, e-save and Manual) for the 40 mile (each way) drive and this is what I have discovered.

The best (most efficient) choice so far is the use of Manual for the 40 mile drive.

Most of my 40 mile drive is on the highway. When leaving it in M8 for most of the highway-drive the electric and ICE propulsion systems appear to be blended. The electric range slowly depletes over the span of the drive ( as opposed to hybrid which would zap it all up front). The good part about this strategy is when I get to around the 30-mile-mark I have about 9 or 10 miles of electric range remaining. This affords me the option to drop into hybrid and use nearly exclusive electric for the stop and go rush-hour traffic near downtown Denver / end of my drive.

If I would drive in hybrid the entire way - then when I get to downtown Denver the battery would be depleted for the last segment of stop and go traffic and the engine running.

If I use e-save for the drive then my mpg is much worse because there is little blending of the electric and ICE engine on the drive, the engine runs to save the battery and carries the load by itself, and again I find a lower calculated MPG.

Using the M8 method my overall JEEP calculated MPG FOR THE 40 mile trip ends up in the 42 to 44 MPG range. Regardless of the “real” MPG (Probs in the mid 20’s when running exclusively on the engine) leaving the the Jeep to calculate the number in each scenario it definitely likes the results of the M8 METHOD best.

oh yeah and I can charge at work for Free :)

Bottom Line : The results since I’ve owned the vehicle are astonishing considering the weight and lack of aerodynamics. Who would have thought that a JL would be able to drive 545 miles on 8 gallons of gas and $20 of electricity. At this rate near 1000 miles a tank?!?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Thanks for posting. This is very interesting. I have about a 23 mile drive to work for my far location. The first 18 miles are highway. I’ve stayed in hybrid the whole time and when I get to work I have anywhere between 18% to only 2% battery left - depending on how much I punched the accelerator on the highway. So you’re saying I should try the manual shift for the highway and then switch back to auto in hybrid when I get off the highway? Of course this is hoping I get my Jeep back from the shop. Right now the shop is waiting for an accelerator part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
This is great information. There are several people in the Jeep 4XE Fans group using this method and it’s really intriguing. I’ve been wanting to do some controlled experiments to see which method (manual vs just using hybrid mode) results in the best net energy efficiency. I really like how your scenario plays out where you have stop and go traffic at the end where electric mode really shines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
There are two things at play here, one which I agree with and one I do not — but this is a subjective not objective response (fair warning). To each their own…

1- ESAVE vs HYBRID vs ELECTRIC
Without a double the car is going to be more efficient on the freeway using gasoline, or a gas/electric hybrid. But this is compounded by gearing (see #2). That said, around town Or in stop/go traffic the EV mode works ideally. If you simply drive the car in Hybrid of Electric mode at slow speeds, with ample charge, the battery will get used first (as long as you dont dip the accelerator too deep). So the gearing wont matter in those instances, to some degree (See #2). FWIW, most people would probably fair just fine using the 3x mode buttons and not worrying about gearing.

2- GEARING (as it pertains to efficiency vs power/comfort)
What you’re essentially doing here to eek out 1-2 MPG extra is just forcing hte car into a more efficient gear ratio. This is the same reason they started adding 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and in some automatics now 10 gears! You forcing the car into 8th gear will always reward you with more economy, at the sacrifice of power and gusto. Again, this works for you, but for many it would not. I’ve also played very little with the 8speed gearbox on the Jeep but in many of my 80+ cars the system will not downshift quickly if in manual mode (in some cars no downshifts at all based on accelerator pedal)— this could leave someone in a danger/risk of not being able to avoid an accident if the torque they demand to avoid something is being foiled by the poor choice of gear. (Eg: if you are in automatic gear selection mode and slam the “go pedal” the car drops a few cogs to give you more power, by means of a gear ratio whose power is amplified, rather than minimized for economy)

FWIW … I have found that I can amply achieve a very similar goal to yours just by using ESAVE at speeds over 55MPH and forcing into ELECTRIC at speeds below that. We dont really have traffic here in Cleveland (thankfully) and my commute is < 20 miles all surface streets (35MPH or 25MPH zones only). But having had BEV/PHEV before, you’re right that sadly the gear ratios really impact the experience (see my other reply on other thread re: lurching during downshifts coming to a stop while in REGEN mode ON).

Again I am not discounting your findings; to the contrary, I am sure they actually work that way as it would entirely make sense a higher gear cog would provide a better efficiency be it gas or electric or both. But simply that its one more thing to have to deal with. I think if there were paddles on the steering wheel I’d be more apt to suggest people use/try it. I personally don’t think the small delta will be worth the fact I want instant power— but that might be mitigated by the fact that the kick down may still exist even in manual mode? Does it? And if so, then perhaps this is a non issue and my random babbling here was entirely pointless in whihc case I apologize LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
I've seen my Jeep go in to that 50/50 blend mode above certain speeds on the highway automatically, it seems like 70-75+ typically keeps it in that mode. I do wish there were a button for keeping it running that way since manually shifting is kinda annoying when you have an auto trans, and it does seem more efficient in some cases than esave or straight electric mode...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for posting. This is very interesting. I have about a 23 mile drive to work for my far location. The first 18 miles are highway. I’ve stayed in hybrid the whole time and when I get to work I have anywhere between 18% to only 2% battery left - depending on how much I punched the accelerator on the highway. So you’re saying I should try the manual shift for the highway and then switch back to auto in hybrid when I get off the highway? Of course this is hoping I get my Jeep back from the shop. Right now the shop is waiting for an accelerator part.
Well, I think in your case staying in Hybrid, assuming you can charge at your end-point would be most efficient. If you can run in Electric for the entire drive why not? If you are speaking in terms of the round trip, then try it out. I would be interested in your findings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Been using the 'true' Hybrid since I purchased my Jeep 4xe in March of this year. The only pain in the rear is the constant shifting when in manual mode. I live in Northern Cali and with all the hills it's really a pain to down/up shift all the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There are two things at play here, one which I agree with and one I do not — but this is a subjective not objective response (fair warning). To each their own…

1- ESAVE vs HYBRID vs ELECTRIC
Without a double the car is going to be more efficient on the freeway using gasoline, or a gas/electric hybrid. But this is compounded by gearing (see #2). That said, around town Or in stop/go traffic the EV mode works ideally. If you simply drive the car in Hybrid of Electric mode at slow speeds, with ample charge, the battery will get used first (as long as you dont dip the accelerator too deep). So the gearing wont matter in those instances, to some degree (See #2). FWIW, most people would probably fair just fine using the 3x mode buttons and not worrying about gearing.

2- GEARING (as it pertains to efficiency vs power/comfort)
What you’re essentially doing here to eek out 1-2 MPG extra is just forcing hte car into a more efficient gear ratio. This is the same reason they started adding 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and in some automatics now 10 gears! You forcing the car into 8th gear will always reward you with more economy, at the sacrifice of power and gusto. Again, this works for you, but for many it would not. I’ve also played very little with the 8speed gearbox on the Jeep but in many of my 80+ cars the system will not downshift quickly if in manual mode (in some cars no downshifts at all based on accelerator pedal)— this could leave someone in a danger/risk of not being able to avoid an accident if the torque they demand to avoid something is being foiled by the poor choice of gear. (Eg: if you are in automatic gear selection mode and slam the “go pedal” the car drops a few cogs to give you more power, by means of a gear ratio whose power is amplified, rather than minimized for economy)

FWIW … I have found that I can amply achieve a very similar goal to yours just by using ESAVE at speeds over 55MPH and forcing into ELECTRIC at speeds below that. We dont really have traffic here in Cleveland (thankfully) and my commute is < 20 miles all surface streets (35MPH or 25MPH zones only). But having had BEV/PHEV before, you’re right that sadly the gear ratios really impact the experience (see my other reply on other thread re: lurching during downshifts coming to a stop while in REGEN mode ON).

Again I am not discounting your findings; to the contrary, I am sure they actually work that way as it would entirely make sense a higher gear cog would provide a better efficiency be it gas or electric or both. But simply that its one more thing to have to deal with. I think if there were paddles on the steering wheel I’d be more apt to suggest people use/try it. I personally don’t think the small delta will be worth the fact I want instant power— but that might be mitigated by the fact that the kick down may still exist even in manual mode? Does it? And if so, then perhaps this is a non issue and my random babbling here was entirely pointless in whihc case I apologize LOL
Apology? I hang out here for the fun. As soon as it isn’t I will check out. I value the “peer review”, so no apology needed. it takes a bit more than that to get me going.

yea, being in M requires a bit more effort. And you aren’t going anywhere fast when you punch it unless you tip the tranny forward a few clicks. Generally I am cruising around 70-ish and not looking for much more than that. To your point there is probably a combination of eSave and Hybrid that would work just as well. For me, and my use-case, using M8 and cruising at 70+ requires the least use of my brain. I wouldn’t do it if I were constantly having to shift.

Cheers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Shaka’s approach makes more sense to me from the convenience of having to shift perspective (I have a manual car now…without paddles I can’t see myself messing with the manual shifting on the 4xe) but I’d want to give it a use case rest over a few weeks to find out. I have a summer drive that I do a lot where I could do this. Anyone else that could test it, data is welcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Well, I think in your case staying in Hybrid, assuming you can charge at your end-point would be most efficient. If you can run in Electric for the entire drive why not? If you are speaking in terms of the round trip, then try it out. I would be interested in your findings.
There’s no charging station at my work, so yes I would be looking to see how I could have more charge left on the return trip since there is about five miles stop and go before the highway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
@DEN4xe — have you turned on the visualization for what gear you are in when not in manual mode? I’ve noted that sometimes the car is in D7 vs D8 at times I don’t follow (60 MPH approx). When 65+ it seems to always get up to 8th gear which would clearly benefit efficiency figures. It is also a curiosity that I suspect has to do with the electrification. Meaning, I suspect when in “full electric mode” the car avoids too high a gear, as that would negatively impact the power delivery. Technically speaking, in EV only mode, the car doesn’t NEED to shift — but still does obviously.

Today I had an errand to run that was 50 miles round trip. I started off with a full charge. I drove ~2 miles to the freeway in EV mode (electric), then went into ESAVE on the freeway, and then back to EV for the final stretch on surface streets. On the way back I decided to JUST drive in Hybrid mode and see how it did. I have the LEFT visualization on my cluster the POWER% meter so it shows how much GAS and EV power is being supplied (you can see This as kW on the center screen, but I like the cluster as it shows more as a percentage of max which helps understand visually since kW doesn’t show %)

What I found really interesting was how the car blended the power on the freeway. At times I saw the electric add more juice, and other times, the gas motor. My cruise control was set to 65-69 MPH most of the drive, and it stayed in D8 (top gear/8th gear) the entirety of the expressway driving. I wish the car had a “this trip” trip meter (avoiding having to reset) as I’d have been curious to see how that worked out. Alas, it did the job, and I was happy with it, but I arrived home with 18% SOC (state of charge). Call me crazy but for me my PERSONAL goal is to always arrive home at 0-2% SOC so that I’ve basically maximized the miles I could have done electrically. Not only as these cost less per mile, but also for emissions etc. And of course it feels more useful since that is part of the justification of the 4XE— to use the electric to its maximum possible.

In conclusion — I think that for many users, simply driving the car fully charged, as is, will benefit them just fine. Playing the “mode switching” game may eek out a touch more MPG, or a bit more electric miles versus hybrid miles, but for many users, I think its safe to just “trust the algorithms” and let the car do the heavy lifting for you! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
901 Posts
Gearing is the first thing that has made sense to me as to why there may be a benefit. The system would need to know we were in for a long highway drive. Unless it worked with the navigation system like a Tesla or Ford, it wouldn't have any way to know.

Something interesting about the gearing, full electric mode won't go over 4th. But if the ice kicks in and then shuts off, the electric motor will stay in 5th-7th (possibly 8th).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
901 Posts
This is great information. There are several people in the Jeep 4XE Fans group using this method and it’s really intriguing. I’ve been wanting to do some controlled experiments to see which method (manual vs just using hybrid mode) results in the best net energy efficiency. I really like how your scenario plays out where you have stop and go traffic at the end where electric mode really shines.
That would make a good video. To date I don't know there has been anyone that has taken measurements other than the trip computer. A pump test or ODBII fuel tracking would be better.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top