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I have a Garmin hiking watch that has smartwatch features.... I have a 4x4 that has hybrid features... I do not have a smartwatch for hiking... I do not have a hybrid with 4X4 capabilities...

But I feel you. I do not plug in and I get 17.5 average hybrid/mpg(e). Not what I was expecting
 

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I have a Garmin hiking watch that has smartwatch features.... I have a 4x4 that has hybrid features... I do not have a smartwatch for hiking... I do not have a hybrid with 4X4 capabilities...

But I feel you. I do not plug in and I get 17.5 average hybrid/mpg(e). Not what I was expecting
Seems kinda pointless to buy a plug in hybrid and not plug it in?
 

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2023 4xe Rubicon
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I have a Garmin hiking watch that has smartwatch features.... I have a 4x4 that has hybrid features... I do not have a smartwatch for hiking... I do not have a hybrid with 4X4 capabilities...
It's funny you put it that way because I'm exactly the same way, I've also got a Garmin watch because I want a hiking watch with some smart features, not a apple watch with some hiking features. And that's also the same reason I got a 4xe Rubicon!

Seems kinda pointless to buy a plug in hybrid and not plug it in?
Not necessarily - before this, I had a Kia Niro PHEV for 4 years, and I hardly ever plugged it in. My main reasons for choosing a PHEV when I bought that Kia were (in this order):
  1. It got huge federal and state tax rebates that non-PHEV didn't, making the more expensive PHEV model actually cost less overall.
  2. It got HOV lane stickers, whereas non-PHEV didn't.
  3. I really like having regenerative braking, and PHEV batteries can store a lot of braking energy on long descents from the mountains.
  4. Better parking spots at the airport parking garage
  5. (this one doesn't really apply to 4xe since there isn't a non-plugin hybrid version) Battery degradation was a non-issue because even if the battery lost 75% of its capacity over time, worst case scenario it would just be a regular hybrid then, whereas a smaller non-plugin battery degrading that much would make the car undriveable. Like that Mitch Hedberg joke - an escalator is never really out of order, it's just temporarily normal stairs. PHEV is an escalator, non-PHEV hybrid is an elevator ;)
That said, now that I've switched to a 4xe, I plug it in religiously every single night. My Kia got like 65mpg when I plugged in every night, or 50mpg if I didn't, so the difference was somewhat negligible to me. But the 4xe gets like 30mpg when I plug in, or 15mpg when I don't, so the difference is far more substantial. It's the difference between getting 250 or 500 miles on a tank of gas, which is enough motivation for me to plug it in whenever I get the chance.
 

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2022 GC 4xe Silver Zynith, Global Black
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It's funny you put it that way because I'm exactly the same way, I've also got a Garmin watch because I want a hiking watch with some smart features, not a apple watch with some hiking features. And that's also the same reason I got a 4xe Rubicon!


Not necessarily - before this, I had a Kia Niro PHEV for 4 years, and I hardly ever plugged it in. My main reasons for choosing a PHEV when I bought that Kia were (in this order):
  1. It got huge federal and state tax rebates that non-PHEV didn't, making the more expensive PHEV model actually cost less overall.
  2. It got HOV lane stickers, whereas non-PHEV didn't.
  3. I really like having regenerative braking, and PHEV batteries can store a lot of braking energy on long descents from the mountains.
  4. Better parking spots at the airport parking garage
  5. (this one doesn't really apply to 4xe since there isn't a non-plugin hybrid version) Battery degradation was a non-issue because even if the battery lost 75% of its capacity over time, it would still have plenty for normal hybrid driving, whereas a smaller non-plugin battery degrading that much would make the car undriveable. Like that Mitch Hedberg joke - an escalator is never really out of order, it's just temporarily normal stairs.
That said, now that I've switched to a 4xe, I plug it in religiously every single night. My Kia got like 65mpg when I plugged in every night, or 50mpg if I didn't, so the difference was somewhat negligible to me. But the 4xe gets like 30mpg when I plug in, or 15mpg when I don't, so the difference is far more substantial. It's the difference between getting 250 or 500 miles on a tank of gas, which is enough motivation for me to plug it in whenever I get the chance.
I got over 1,100 miles with a quarter tank left on the first tank before the car made me fill it up.
 

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2022 GC 4xe Silver Zynith, Global Black
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I believe it! Sadly I have 60 miles a day of commuting so I'll never get close to that, at least until I can convince my work to give me a 220v jack in the parking lot ;)
Wish my work would do that. If its nice I park at the free one across the streeet and just walk over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I'm the original poster of "Regrets?". This is going to crack you up... after all of the great educational info that you all have generously taken the time to share, and driving on simple "Hybrid" mode for the week, I texted my salesperson yesterday to ask him to stop the order of my non-hybrid JGC (he hasn't answered me yet). I feel that I understand the workings of the system so much better that, now, I believe that I'd like to keep this car. I am taking the liberty of printing off some of the early postings to educate my dealership. I don't want anyone else to go through what I have!

THANK YOU! :giggle:
 

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.....and the electric motor, thus increasing mass, weight and integral complexity which in turn increases friction, heat, energy required to overcome inertia while also increasing long term maintenance. This all serves to decrease for the long term, overall efficiency, joy and one's sleep at night from seeing visions of screen info coming from the center stack of the dashboard. Moreover, different from a true stand alone hybrid you pay for the additional infrastructure and the electricity it provides once a PHEV's battery is discharged after a handful of miles are driven in electric only mode only to be plugged in to begin the process all over again.

......with the exception of better highway mileage than a comparable ICE will deliver on road trips of more than 150 miles. Mllcb42's excellent post #5 reads a little bit like tax code, showing how simple a PHEV owner's world is.
Engine, brakes and other things work less. don't see the increase friction here, weight sure. Increased weight will wear out tires and bushings faster. I am not worried about that. Toyota hybrids are used as taxis in Europe, many with 500.000 km. I owned one Toyota hybrid for 5 years. I never did anything to it, not even break pads, just oil changes and wiper blades..
4xe is the first PHEV I have, I see many of the the same traits.
 

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It's always interesting to see how much discontent is simply a matter of confusion over how something works.
Yes, the day after I bought my 2022 Grand Cherokee, I read the forum post about FORM. Stating that people were upset that they basically had a seasonal EV car due to the fact that the could not drive in electric mode only with out the FORM light coming on. The post stated that there was a law suit starting in Washington State and that through research it appeared that the car needed to get up to 190 degrees to run efficiently in electric mode. FELT LIKE I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE and I took the GC back to the dealership to return the car. The dealership would not even read the post/article and stated they don't return vehicles. No one would even address the issue, not the saleman, sales manager, and or even someone from service. I told the dealership that I would share my experience online and the sales manager told me to get the blank out of his store. Then I called another dealership since I just lost all support and help from the dealership where I purchased the jeep and said that the salesman should have sent you and email with the link for os plus videos and they may have explained the FORM system. I told the other dealership that I had not received the email/link and he stated that they probably aren't going to send the os plus videos, because that probably triggers the dealership review form-and they don't want a negative review from me. During the purchase, the sales manager came and sat at my table and told me how important the dealership review form is and told me to make sure I give all 10's because the review form was basis for the salesman getting his bonus-but most of the questions appeared to be related to the dealership. He apologyzed that the GC had no charge on the battery(one of the questions on the review form)but the deal happened kind all of sudden....."but if you could- we need you put that your GC was fully charged", never had a car deal happen quickly and this deal with financing was no exception- after 4 hours I drove home with no charge for my GC. The other dealership apologized and tried to explain the 4XE system and stated that the car should primarily be drivin HYBRID mode for great mileage and performance, Its been approximately three weeks and still haven't received the Jeep/Mopar review form for the dealership. I really would like to review dealership. Is it still coming? or do I need to call someone? I am dreading going back to pick up my plates. One more thing, the infotainment center is plastic, correct.(a fingerprint magnet) I have heard of people damaging the screen and or black surfaces with products that contain alcohol. What is everyone using?
 

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The other dealership apologized and tried to explan the 4XE system and stated that the car should primarily drivein HYBRID mode for great mileage and performance, Its been approximately three weeks and still haven't received the Jeep/Mopar review form for the dealership.
The survey can often take several weeks to show up.

On the other hand, if a dealer knows a bad review is coming, a shady dealer will sometimes put the wrong email address in so the survey goes to them instead of you.
 

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One more thing, the infotainment center is plastic, correct.(a fingerprint magnet) I have heard of people damaging the screen and or black surfaces with products that contain alcohol. What is everyone using?
For my Wrangler 4xe, I got a tempered glass screen protector (similar to one for your smartphone) on Amazon for this same reason. Makes cleaning smudges and/or fingerprints off of the screen simple and worry free since there’s now a layer of glass between your cleaning products and the actual screen. I use Windex to clean it, but I spray onto the paper towel outside of the Jeep before I wipe the screen. I do the same with all my windows to avoid overspray onto the dash, etc.

This is the one I got. Fitment is similar to like putting a screen protector on a smartphone…where it will fit like 99%, but not completely to the edge which may bother you if you’re OCD like me. However I stopped noticing it in my wrangler so maybe it’s not as bad as I’m explaining.
Amazon Screen Protector for Jeep
 
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