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unless the lack of ICE use also factors into the oil life?
It absolutely does. You get all that fun fuel building up in there, diluting things, etc. Add in that short run cycles without warming up is high stress on the oil, and you get significantly shorter oil life.

As a comparison point, Toyota has a 10k mile oil change interval on their normal engines and a 5k mile oil change interval on their phevs.

Remember, Jeep says to change it when the oil monitor says it's needed, but not to exceed 10k miles. That doesn't mean it's going to get 10k miles.
 
It absolutely does. You get all that fun fuel building up in there, diluting things, etc. Add in that short run cycles without warming up is high stress on the oil, and you get significantly shorter oil life.

As a comparison point, Toyota has a 10k mile oil change interval on their normal engines and a 5k mile oil change interval on their phevs.

Remember, Jeep says to change it when the oil monitor says it's needed, but not to exceed 10k miles. That doesn't mean it's going to get 10k miles.
I figured with FORM kicking in pretty regularly, that would allow for a slightly longer oil change cycle (which is what I meant by "double dip"), but if that's how it operates, I suppose that's that. Given ours will be a year old next month, we'll probably only need a change once a year relative to mileage :D
 
We use our 4xe in electric mode about 90% of the time, and since the gas sits for extended periods, ours kicks into FORM, and I just drive out about a 1/4 of a tank or so. Then, I've been able to switch out of FORM with just topping off the gas.....
We're ~60% electric use for our 4xe. If you do use it 90% of the time in electric, you might do well to keep the fuel tank filled to just 1/4 full so you can more quickly cycle out the fuel as needed. Fuel begins going stale in ~3mo (assume you go a month or two between fill-ups?) and can build up gunk in your engine as well as create performance/efficiency losses the longer the old gas remains.

If a full tank takes, say, 2mos to fully cycle out it's an overly long time, IMHO. The age of the gasoline starts as it leaves the refinery, not when we fill up. When we fill up at a gas station, that gas may already be a month old or more at some stations. The FORM programming is a good thing for PHEV engines to promote the longevity of the combustion engine. If we can find regular occasions where the engine runs continuously for a solid 20min on trips/errands, we'll be doing the engine and our wallets a favor in the long run.
 
I just did the same - in addition to my new HV heater, the dealer changed the oil but forgot to reset the monitor. No biggie, I reset it and - my 4xE is a hybrid again!
 
Back again, I was out for about 4 days after the oil change…. And now I’m back in FORM, not sure how oil could become that contaminated in 4 days…. But I’m just a dumb person who got hood winked into a “hybrid” jeep…. My jeep spends more time running parked in my driveway than on the road at this point.
 
Back again, I was out for about 4 days after the oil change…. And now I’m back in FORM, not sure how oil could become that contaminated in 4 days…. But I’m just a dumb person who got hood winked into a “hybrid” jeep…. My jeep spends more time running parked in my driveway than on the road at this point.
Yeah, not sure what’s up with that. Gotta be something wrong. Could the dealership possibly reflash the computer??
 
Mine went into FORM a few days ago for the first time, I was just under 5000 miles at that time. It gets cold here but not crazy cold this year, low teens, I'm usually parked in the driveway plugged in and usually remote start. ICE will usually fire at around 27-28 F. If its not too cold even if ICE runs I can usually put it in electric mode once I "start" it. Taken a few road trips and had the oil changed in January.

Back to the FORM info, went into FORM in the morning as I got to work, drove home 10 miles, speeds 25-45 MPH, temp was 30ish F, engine and oil weren't quite up to temp by the time I got home.....pulled in the garage temp in garage was about 50 F, door open obviously, temps while idling weren't really getting high enough. Put a moving blanket over the grill and kept an eye on it, got to engine temp running between 208-217 ish F, and oil temp 206-212 ish F. Was inside the house and I heard the Jeep shut off......it hit the 30 min shutdown......

I restarted it and put it in D/N/R a few times every 10 minutes or so........at pretty much exactly 30 minutes it cleared FORM and the ICE shut down. Oil temp was above 206 F to about 212 F the whole time.

It appears that if FORM isn't cleared the time spent trying to get it out will reset once the Jeep shuts down or is shut off, and you'll need to start again to get the 30 ish minutes. So it appears you can't get the oil temp to 205 F + for 10 minutes 3 days in a row to clear FORM.

I've found that if I drive even at highway speeds the coolant and oil temp stay too low to clear FORM in the colder winter weather.

Maybe this will help someone.
 
If there is a cold ambient temp, and you get EMU it's not necessarily form, check this out

If the HV battery is cold enough Electric only isn't going to happen and it's not FORM.



I live where it's very cold, and it seems the vehicle will keep the battery at or around 0c.
 
Hello everybody,
The good news: My 4xe finally behaves like a Hybrid again. The bad news: We don't know why.

Ok, to summarize my issue: I got the software update on 10/21/2021 and since them my 4Xe was stuck in FORM - Nothing resolved the issue - see detailed testing further up...

I had the car at the dealership for some trouble shouting - no errors, no issues whatsoever on there side. As far as they can tell the vehicle behaves as designed. They called me and they said everything is normal, no errors...

Ok, alright I asked them to reset the oil life - because the didn't when they changed the oil. I pick up the car ant the car behaves like an hybrid again.

I was wondering if somebody who has the same issue - stuck in FORM - can just reset the Oil life and see if that resolved the issues.

Hope it helps...
my jeep was stuck in FORM for 4 months. The dealership had no answers for me so I called Jeep. Not to my surprise they had no answers for me either. I reset my oil life and it took it out of FORM. If having a vehicle that only uses electric 6 months out of the year is Jeep's definition of hybrid then they have a long way to go. So far this 4xe has been garbage besides the tax credit.
 
While you're Jeep is stuck in form it is absolutely still functioning as a hybrid. What you meant to say is it's not functioning as a BEV (battery electric vehicle) which, unfortunately, isn't what you purchased.

my jeep was stuck in FORM for 4 months. The dealership had no answers for me so I called Jeep. Not to my surprise they had no answers for me either. I reset my oil life and it took it out of FORM. If having a vehicle that only uses electric 6 months out of the year is Jeep's definition of hybrid then they have a long way to go. So far this 4xe has been garbage besides the tax credit.
 
Hello all. We want to reach back out and provide further insight here, as we see that there are still conversations surrounding FORM. Our internal engineers have comprised the following details and we encourage you all to take a look. We have also included the link to the updated Owner’s Manual which now reflects the changes to the section marked “Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode”.

Thanks, Jeep Cares

Further information on the operation of Fuel Oil Refresh Mode (FORM) in the Wrangler 4xe

What is FORM?

Some customers have commented about repeated or extended incidents of Fuel Oil Refresh Mode (FORM) during the winter season. If this is the first time you're hearing about FORM, please refer first to the owner's manual information: https://msmownerassets.z13.web.core...publications/en-us/Jeep/2021/Wrangler_4xe/P125757_21_JL_H_SU_EN_USC_DIGITAL.pdf

The purpose of this message is to better communicate how the oil dilution portion of FORM works, why some people see it frequently but others don't, and how to get Electric drive mode back. We won't discuss the stale fuel or spark maintenance portions of FORM here, because they are more straightforward and not seasonal in nature.

What is happening in the engine?

Oil dilution FORM exists to reduce the possibility of engine damage caused by contaminants diluted in the engine oil. The contaminant of primary concern is gasoline, since it's continually injected directly into the combustion chamber while running. Although the 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder engine in the Wrangler 4xe is manufactured to precise tolerances, piston-ring-to-cylinder-bore sealing varies with engine operating temperature. Sealing is optimized for normal operating temperature. It's normal for some gasoline to make its way past the piston rings when the engine is cold. When the engine becomes warm, the piston rings expand and seal more tightly. Gasoline evaporates out of the hot engine oil, is routed through the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system, and is ultimately used to make power.

Is the Wrangler 4xe different from other vehicles?

Oil dilution happens in all internal combustion engines. In conventional vehicles, trips of moderate length are enough to resolve the condition. This is why ICE vehicle owners’ manuals recommend frequent oil changes in vehicles used for short trips. In Plug-in Hybrid vehicles, some use cases lead to many cold engine startups but little or no engine operation at normal temperature. One example is a customer who uses their Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) just like a Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV), except for 0 - 15 minutes' duration ICE operation during most drive cycles. This short engine operation might come during remote start to warm the cabin, or a short high-speed portion of an otherwise all-electric commute. With that type of usage, especially while the outdoor temperature is cold, it's possible for 100% of engine runtime to occur with the engine well below normal operating temperature. Gasoline dilutes into the oil whenever the engine runs, but never evaporates out again. Over time, the contamination level grows.

You won't see features like FORM in BEV's or HEV's, because they're not subject to this use case. But in PHEVs from other manufacturers, you’ll see warnings like "Low Engine Use Mode," "Maintaining Hybrid mode to protect engine," or "Engine Maintenance Mode," which all do the same thing as FORM.

How does the vehicle “know” about dilution? What does it do about it?

It's not practical to directly measure the proportion of gasoline diluted in the oil of a running engine. Before the launch of the Wrangler 4xe, Stellantis engineers built a model which accurately predicts the rate of dilution and evaporation inside the engine. This model runs at all times in the Wrangler's computers, and is based mainly on engine oil temperature, engine load and engine runtime. This is why it's important never to reset your Oil Life Indicator, if you have not changed the oil. To do that would introduce a large error in the modeled vs. actual dilution, and increase the probability of engine damage. Wrangler 4xe owners who encounter dilution FORM have commented that their engine oil smells like gasoline. This indicates that the dilution model is correctly identifying and mitigating a potentially damaging situation.

Dilution FORM in the Wrangler 4xe behaves differently, depending on modeled dilution level.

· Step 0: Normal Operation: Below a bottom threshold, vehicle operation is normal.

· Step 1: Moderate fuel dilution: Between the bottom and middle thresholds, silent start allows electric operation during a drive until the first ICE start. After that, you'll see the FORM message and the ICE will continue running until you shut the car off.

· Step 2: More fuel dilution: Between the middle and top thresholds, EV operation is not allowed. The ICE will start when you power up the vehicle and remain running until you shut down, or the bottom threshold is reached, whichever comes first.

· Step 3: More fuel dilution: Above the top threshold, EV operation is not allowed, and the vehicle will instruct you to perform an oil change.

Depending on outside temperature and how the vehicle is being operated, it could climb or descend this ladder. Based on thorough review of feedback from dealership service departments, directly from customers through Jeep Wave, and from social media postings this winter, Jeep believes some Wrangler 4xe customers' engines are rarely warming fully to operating temperature. For this reason, oil dilution is staying between the bottom and middle thresholds (“Step 1”) for extended periods of time in some vehicles operating in cold climates. The user's experience is therefore similar to frequently leaving and re-entering dilution FORM. Some customers may also be experiencing extended periods in “Step 2.” Jeep Engineering and Jeep Wave are not aware of any cases where FORM is acting differently than designed, or where an unrelated hardware issue is exacerbating FORM duration or frequency.

How can I get Electric mode back?

The use case which leads to this level of dilution can vary, but the path to resolution is always the same:

· Start the engine and allow engine oil to reach normal operating temperature. 169°F (76°C) is the minimum, but normal operating temperature is above 194°F (90°C). Elevated speed and load will warm the engine oil most quickly.

· Continue running the engine until FORM is no longer shown in the Message Center of the instrument cluster. Depending on the dilution level, oil temperature and outside temp, this can take from 20 minutes to 2.5 hours.

· In case the above steps are not possible, change the engine oil and reset the oil life indicator.

· Never reset the oil life indicator without changing the engine oil.

It's possible that some use cases lead to a lot of dilution and not enough evaporation to compensate. In this case FORM will return as long as the weather remains cold. We have high confidence that these frustrations will be resolved when the weather becomes warmer.
 
I don’t know about anyone else in cold temps, but getting to 196f while driving is almost impossible for me. I’ve driven many miles with ICE running 100% of the time and the highest temps I see are 183 to maybe 190 briefly. So I see no way around idling to obtain time and temps above 196f. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
· Start the engine and allow engine oil to reach normal operating temperature. 169°F (76°C) is the minimum, but normal operating temperature is above 194°F (90°C). Elevated speed and load will warm the engine oil most quickly.
It sounds like it will start clearing FORM above 169°F, but I suspect that it is a matter of temperature vs. time as to how quickly it will get out of FORM. That is, the hotter the oil, the faster FORM will clear. If you can't get the oil over 194°F, it might take a lot of driving to clear FORM.

FWIW, I was able to clear FORM back in January after driving and hour and a half in temperatures down to 1°F. At highway & back-road speeds, it took maybe 40 minutes or so to get up to 195°F with the grille blocked off. Driving uphill to my destination at the ski area boosted the oil temp over 210°F.

I am currently back in FORM, but the weather is warming up. I'm going to keep the grille blocked for now, and keep an eye on the temperatures.
 
@JeepCares
Thank you for re-engaging with this forum and your customers and thank you for this response regarding FORM operation and its multi-step function. Please continue to provide these types of informative posts and updates that go beyond the limited information of the owner's manual.

Please consider:
1) adding the Mopar winter grille cover as an approved Jeep accessory for the 4xe.
a) consider adding the grille cover as a standard item in the Cold Weather Group.
2) separate FORM into two seperate messages FRM and ORM for the driver.
Fuel Refresh Mode - fresh fuel needs added.
Oil Refresh Mode - fuel in the oil.
a) add a progress meter for this mode that indicates to the driver how much longer the vehicle will need to be driven in order to satisfy ORM (much like a diesel DPF regen status indicator)

Thank you.
 
That information is great, however it still does not explain why my jeep went back into FORM right after an oil change. The Oil was changed (and oil life reset) and driven 1 hour back home, sat in driveway over night. Then the next morning, back in FORM.

Seems to be a bigger issue then how the vehicle is being operated.
 
That information is great, however it still does not explain why my jeep went back into FORM right after an oil change. The Oil was changed (and oil life reset) and driven 1 hour back home, sat in driveway over night. Then the next morning, back in FORM.

Seems to be a bigger issue then how the vehicle is being operated.
Read this post


Lots of values to make the vehicle go in to FORM and if you aren't monitoring it then you don't really know
 
Not quite sure what you mean, if you read the post above it states the computer is calculating the dilution rate, not actually measuring it. If you change the oil and reset oil life, they claimed it should clear issue and reset calculation. I ran the engine at 180+ for an hour (zero bat charge) to get home from an oil change, it sat for 9 hours overnight. Next morning back in FORM. I watched the oil drip from the jeep at the dealer to make sure they actually changed the oil.

Why would the computer predict contamination in the oil after such a short period of time? One would also assume that not much continuation should occur in the oil after such a short period of time especially at what has been stated is correct operating temp.



Read this post


Lots of values to make the vehicle go in to FORM and if you aren't monitoring it then you don't really know
 
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